NEIPA Help

[Rwadams]

Just kegged a NEIPA after a 20 day fermentation (brewed with Grainfather). Prior to kegging the beer had a nice bright yellow/orange color, a strong aroma (citra & amarillo) and juicy flavor (although with some harsh aftertaste).

24 hours in the kegerator, under CO2 pressure, and it pours a sickly milky yellow color, totally opaque, with minimal aroma and the harsh tastes predominate.

Where did I go wrong?

I did clean both the keg and the lines with PBW and then with Starsan, and then rinsed with water prior to filling. Also did my best to release oxygen from the tank prior to pressurizing.

 

[Irish1225]

That first keg pull could just be a lot of yeast that could have been picked up during transfer.

Give it a little more time to carb and settle out. I’m hoping it clears out for you!

 

[porter1974]

I think you just need to blow out a few more pints. And let it carb more.

 

[Rwadams]

Fingers crossed. Will report back.

 

[Nagorg]

Did any cheese balls fall in the keg?

 

[Amadeo38]

I did clean both the keg and the lines with PBW and then with Starsan, and then rinsed with water prior to filling. Also did my best to release oxygen from the tank prior to pressurizing.

As others have stated, it’s probably just hop particulate matter settling out. However, something caught my eye - you mentioned rinsing with water AFTER StarSan? StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer and regular unboiled water is probably full of baddies. Best to just rack on top of the foam after dumping the majority of the StarSan liquid.

Cheers!

 

[Jag75]

Was that the first pour ? You have water left in the line . So that comes out then beer follows. One thing is after you run PBW through the lines you need to run hot water through to rinse then run starsan. Looks like hop sludge to me as well in there . What kind of yeast did you use ?

 

[Rwadams]

-No cheese balls
-Thanks for the info on cleaning order... I did use unboiled water last [emoji21]
-Used Imperial Juice. Fermentor is conical and draws above the sludge. Dry hopping was all in hop bags so particulate would have been suspended yeast or possibly grain/hops didn’t filter out during the transfer to the fermentor (don’t think there was too much of that)

 

[Rwadams]

Color is improving after a few more pours.

 

[Amadeo38]

-Thanks for the info on cleaning order... I did use unboiled water last [emoji21]

Probably most pertinent to the pre-fermentation cold-side operations (e.g. your fermenter, all transfer equipment, etc) but still potential for issues, albeit minuscule, after alcohol is present.

 

[Jag75]

I dont know if it's the lighting but the last picture of the beer you posted looks like oxidation is setting in . Theres a big difference in color from the picture of the beer you had in the tube for the FG check. What is your kegging steps? Did you clean and sanitize your dry hop bag?

 

[porter1974]

As others have stated, it’s probably just hop particulate matter settling out. However, something caught my eye - you mentioned rinsing with water AFTER StarSan? StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer and regular unboiled water is probably full of baddies. Best to just rack on top of the foam after dumping the majority of the StarSan liquid.

Cheers!

I second this. I keg onto StarSan foam all the time.

 

[Rwadams]

Thanks! Got away from brewing for about 5 years and I’m now back in it learning all grain.
Between the time away and focusing on the all grain piece, I’ve forgotten some of the mechanics and best practices.

 

[Rwadams]

I dont know if it's the lighting but the last picture of the beer you posted looks like oxidation is setting in . Theres a big difference in color from the picture of the beer you had in the tube for the FG check. What is your kegging steps? Did you clean and sanitize your dry hop bag?

I do sanitize the dry hop bags.

For kegging I put in about a gallon of water with PBW, shook, and then ran through the lines. Then repeat with Starsan. Then repeat with water (understand the water should have come 2nd).

To transfer I attached surgical tubing (sanitized) to the spigot on the fermentor. The other end reaches the bottom of the keg, so no splashing. Also kept lid over the keg opening as much as possible.

When full, I connect to co2 inside the kegerator, fill with co2, release, fill, release, fill, release, fill.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

When full, I connect to co2 inside the kegerator, fill with co2, release, fill, release, fill, release, fill.

I used the process you describe for years and I think my beers were fine (though now that I understand the characteristics of oxidation more, I think many of my beers had minor oxidation issues that I did not recognize)...but...NEIPAs are extremely sensitive to oxidation. There are some theories about what contributes to this, but if you like NEIPAs and beers with lots of late hops, I would suggest looking into closed keg transfers.

 

[Rwadams]

I used the process you describe for years and I think my beers were fine (though now that I understand the characteristics of oxidation more, I think many of my beers had minor oxidation issues that I did not recognize)...but...NEIPAs are extremely sensitive to oxidation. There are some theories about what contributes to this, but if you like NEIPAs and beers with lots of late hops, I would suggest looking into closed keg transfers.

Thanks. You think the problem happens in the actual transfer (versus something happening in the keg)?

 

[Nagorg]

-No cheese balls

Oh good... Just checking!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Thanks. You think the problem happens in the actual transfer (versus something happening in the keg)?

I don't know. I guess I have seen enough people post pics of their brown-ish NEIPAs that it scared me enough to figure out a closed transfer plan before I brewed my first one.

How is your beer looking/tasting? It is hard to tell with that pic since the glass is pretty wide and the lighting is not that great.

 

[Rwadams]

I don't know. I guess I have seen enough people post pics of their brown-ish NEIPAs that it scared me enough to figure out a closed transfer plan before I brewed my first one.

How is your beer looking/tasting? It is hard to tell with that pic since the glass is pretty wide and the lighting is not that great.

Definitely improving each day in the keg. After a week I’ll try to take a good picture to post and my “impartial” tasting analysis. Thanks!

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

As others have stated, it’s probably just hop particulate matter settling out. However, something caught my eye - you mentioned rinsing with water AFTER StarSan? StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer and regular unboiled water is probably full of baddies. Best to just rack on top of the foam after dumping the majority of the StarSan liquid.

Cheers!

Don't fear the foam!

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

When full, I connect to co2 inside the kegerator, fill with co2, release, fill, release, fill, release, fill.

Next time connect the gas line to the out post and let Co2 run into the bottom of the keg before filling it with beer. Repeat three or four times as the keg fills. Some may disagree but Co2 being heavier than air should displace the air in the keg and reduce the chance of oxidization during transfer.

 

[TheHopfather]

Your first picture just looks like a bunch of gunk that settled in the bottom of the keg. Gunk being the highly technical term for trub and yeast. I wouldn't sweat it at this point. Now this may not be a popular opinion here, but I think a lot of people like to drink their NEIPA's too soon. Lately I haven't even been touching mine until they've been sitting for 2 weeks in the keg. The flavors mellow and blend, the mouth feel changes and they just generally taste better at 2 weeks. Let it sit for a bit and let time work its magic.

I am using closed transfers and am pretty anal about limiting cold side O2 however. If you aren't, you are likely racing against oxidation. If you enjoy NEIPA's you should probably learn how to do closed transfers, that style really benefits from them.

 

[Jag75]

This is my NEIPA 4 days into a keg.
I dont think a NEIPA ages well imo.

 

[TheHopfather]

Your picture doesn't load for me. My NEIPA's look and taste fine right after kegging as well. I just think that they taste better at the 2 week mark. The hops are just too "raw", for lack of a better description after just a couple days of being kegged.

 

[Rwadams]

This is my NEIPA 4 days into a keg. View attachment 631776
I dont think a NEIPA ages well imo.

Looks beautiful! Mine is getting closer to that color.

 

[Rwadams]

Looks beautiful! Mine is getting closer to that color.

Here it is in natural light after about 3 1/2 days in the keg.

 

[Rwadams]

View attachment 631824 Here it is in natural light after about 3 1/2 days in the keg.

Direct sunlight version.

 

[Jag75]

Heck yeah man looks really good ! Enjoy

 

[Amadeo38]

My NEIPA's look and taste fine right after kegging as well. I just think that they taste better at the 2 week mark. The hops are just too "raw", for lack of a better description after just a couple days of being kegged.

Totally agreed. The hop astringency is just a bit much at first. Also fun finding: if you agitate the keg, the turbidity returns and some of that astringency as well. Not sure if this is just a bit of the “gunk” that has settled in that little low spot in the bottom center of the corny going back into suspension?

OP - your beer is looking mighty fine!

 

[Rwadams]

[emoji4][emoji481]

 

[Rwadams]

Really appreciate all the help and advice. Have some new techniques to try going forward.

 

[Jag75]

Really appreciate all the help and advice. Have some new techniques to try going forward.

You might wanna start with taking the Giants memorabilia down lol

 

[Rwadams]

You mean put up more Niners stuff?

 

[Jag75]

I'm a Bronco fan so no lol.
Looks like ya need some Dodger blue in there haha

 

[Rwadams]

Will do when you start rooting for KC [emoji6]

 

[Jag75]

Will do when you start rooting for KC [emoji6]

Haha never gonna happen lol

 

[Rwadams]

Haha never gonna happen lol

Figured that was a safe bet.

 

[DVCNick]

I don't know why this is, but I read it here and found it to be the truth: Carbonation in the keg takes about a week to really get right, even if the gauge says it is at the correct level before that.

What I've been doing is spending about the first 48 hours at 30psi, then turn turn the gas all the way off for a few hours to see where it stabilizes... usually at that time it is around my target of ~12psi, maybe a little under. Physics would tell me it is properly carbed at that point. Then I bump the gas back on just enough to make sure it stays there.

The first time I was way impatient at tapped it at two days... not nearly ready.
At four days it is a lot better, but like I said it doesn't seem to be "right" for at least a week. I don't know why, but I agree it is better if you can wait at least that long. I haven't done a NEIPA yet, but most of my beers are hoppy ales with late additions and dry hops.