NEIPA/Hazy brew overly bitter - undrinkable

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Brian66

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I brew small batch - 2 1/2 gal BIAB batches. I've been having a problem with NEIPA batches having extreme bitterness making the beer undrinkable. Often the beer has the proper aroma - fruity, citrusy but it tastes bad.

I've had this experience with a few different yeasts - White labs Burlington ale yeast (WLP095), wyeast london ale III (1318) and dry Lallemand East coast yeast.

The issue happens in the fermenter and after dry hopping. For these NEIPAs I am not doing any bittering hops - I am adding hops at flameout and then I do some whirlpool hops at 160F-170F. I usually dry hop around day 2 or 3 and again around day 7-8. I always dry hop in hop sacks.

Hop amounts are usually
Flame Out or last 5 mins of boil - 2oz
WP - 2oz
1st dry hop - 2oz
2nd dry hop - 2oz-4oz

I think I'm ruling out water since I've brewed a NEIPA kit twice from my LHBS that comes with a water mineral pack and you use distilled water - I still have the issue.

I have a hazy pale ale that is carbonating now that doesn't have this bitterness. I used S-04 yeast and it has less dry hops than the NEIPAs I've brewed. Plus when I went to dry hop around day three, it was almost done fermenting.

I don't seem to have this issue with american IPAs, pale ales and lagers. I have a stainless steel Anvil fermentor. For ales I ferment in my basement where the temperature is a relatively constant temperature between 62F-64F and fermentations are around 68F. I will usually move the fermenter upstairs near the end of fermentation where the room temperature is around 70F

What I've found out is that if I cold crash and after the beer sits in a cold keg for a couple of weeks the bitterness reduces but doesn't fully go away - there's no juiciness to the flavor. The beer also doesn't have not the normal NEIPA haze.

This almost seems to be an issue with hop particles still in suspension. But I can't seem to eliminate the bitterness and I don't get the juicy flavor at all - even after being cold in the keg for weeks.

Could this be just the case of too many hops? I've only had this issue for the last 1-2 years, I did have some NEIPA batches before that that were good.

I don't know what to do/try at this point. Any help or suggestions is appreciated.
 

RM-MN

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Your 2 ounces of hops at flame out are adding bitterness which continues during your whirlpool during which you added 2 more ounces of hops which also add bitterness until the temperature goes below about 170. Try reducing those hops and your bitterness will go down. Save them for the next batch or use them for additional dry hopping.
 
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Brian66

Brian66

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Your 2 ounces of hops at flame out are adding bitterness which continues during your whirlpool during which you added 2 more ounces of hops which also add bitterness until the temperature goes below about 170. Try reducing those hops and your bitterness will go down. Save them for the next batch or use them for additional dry hopping.

Thanks for the reply - I'll try that. Would the excessive bitterness be the reason there's no fruity/juicy flavor but it's still smells fruity/juicy?
 
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There are a lot of opinions on how to dry hop a neipa. I'd skip that first dry hop and add them all 2 to 3 days before packaging. The other thing I would do is a soft crash before dryhopping to drop the yeast out before adding your hops, this will help avoid hop creep. I soft crash to 45f for 24 hours. Then dry hop at 55f for 2 or 3 days then cold crash for 36 hour or more then keg. That's been a good practice for me but everyone had different procedures depending on equipment and preferences.
 

youngdh

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I brew small batch - 2 1/2 gal BIAB batches. I've been having a problem with NEIPA batches having extreme bitterness making the beer undrinkable. Often the beer has the proper aroma - fruity, citrusy but it tastes bad.

I've had this experience with a few different yeasts - White labs Burlington ale yeast (WLP095), wyeast london ale III (1318) and dry Lallemand East coast yeast.

The issue happens in the fermenter and after dry hopping. For these NEIPAs I am not doing any bittering hops - I am adding hops at flameout and then I do some whirlpool hops at 160F-170F. I usually dry hop around day 2 or 3 and again around day 7-8. I always dry hop in hop sacks.

Hop amounts are usually
Flame Out or last 5 mins of boil - 2oz
WP - 2oz
1st dry hop - 2oz
2nd dry hop - 2oz-4oz

I think I'm ruling out water since I've brewed a NEIPA kit twice from my LHBS that comes with a water mineral pack and you use distilled water - I still have the issue.

I have a hazy pale ale that is carbonating now that doesn't have this bitterness. I used S-04 yeast and it has less dry hops than the NEIPAs I've brewed. Plus when I went to dry hop around day three, it was almost done fermenting.

I don't seem to have this issue with american IPAs, pale ales and lagers. I have a stainless steel Anvil fermentor. For ales I ferment in my basement where the temperature is a relatively constant temperature between 62F-64F and fermentations are around 68F. I will usually move the fermenter upstairs near the end of fermentation where the room temperature is around 70F

What I've found out is that if I cold crash and after the beer sits in a cold keg for a couple of weeks the bitterness reduces but doesn't fully go away - there's no juiciness to the flavor. The beer also doesn't have not the normal NEIPA haze.

This almost seems to be an issue with hop particles still in suspension. But I can't seem to eliminate the bitterness and I don't get the juicy flavor at all - even after being cold in the keg for weeks.

Could this be just the case of too many hops? I've only had this issue for the last 1-2 years, I did have some NEIPA batches before that that were good.

I don't know what to do/try at this point. Any help or suggestions is appreciated.
I had a similar experience a couple of years ago doing my session NEIPA where my dry hop was Galaxy. Even after cold crashing I couldn’t get rid of that “back of the throat” dank bitterness taste. It was undrinkable! I was close to dumping the batch when I read that some hop varieties contain high amounts of polyphenols that get left in suspension of which Galaxy was one of those varieties. It was suggested to add some Biofine to the keg and give it a couple of more weeks to allow the polyphenols to bind up and drop out. Viola! That worked and I saved a batch of beer!! I also agree with other responses here that you will still get cold side IBUs in your whirlpool addition and your dry hop. If using high alpha acid hops for that considering adjusting the amount of hops and/or duration of hop contact.
 

Albionwood

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I had the same problem recently with a beer I dryhopped with Cryo pellets. Suspended lupulin solids made the beer undrinkably bitter, that back-of-the-throat burn. Fined it with gelatin and lagered for a month and it is fine now. Great hop nose but surprisingly little hop flavor though.
 
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Brian66

Brian66

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Thanks for the input. I'll try another NEIPA in the next few weeks and try these suggestions and report back.
 

Deka22

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Had this experience too. Did you bag or basket your whirlpool and flameout hops. If not try it. Solved my problem..
 
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Brian66

Brian66

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I always bag my hop additions. I'm working on a NEIPA now. I did no flame out hops, cut back on the whirlpool hops (done at 165F). I waited 7 days to dry hop - I meant to crash to 45F first but forgot, so I put the fermenter outside since temps outside were around 47F-55F. Then I dry hopped a second time. I think it has greatly reduced the bitterness - will know better later this week.
 
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Brian66

Brian66

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There are a lot of opinions on how to dry hop a neipa. I'd skip that first dry hop and add them all 2 to 3 days before packaging. The other thing I would do is a soft crash before dryhopping to drop the yeast out before adding your hops, this will help avoid hop creep. I soft crash to 45f for 24 hours. Then dry hop at 55f for 2 or 3 days then cold crash for 36 hour or more then keg. That's been a good practice for me but everyone had different procedures depending on equipment and preferences.
OK - So I followed this process on my latest NEIPA and the results are much better. No bitterness, the smell is really good. I just need a little more juiciness in the taste.

Thanks for the tips - they have helped tremendously!

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