Negative Bicarbonate

[arnobg]

I am brewing a Saison today and in order to get my Mash pH down to 5.5 at room temp (5.2-5.3 mash temp) I need about 2.3ml of Lactic Acid. This however has lowered my Bicarbonate to about -12.

Now I see there are plenty of other posts with this question but none of them really get answered in a simple answer, they are all long book length scientific explanations. Could someone point me to a thread or just a simple answer is this normal and is this ok, or should I cut some acid to make my Bicarbonate= 0?

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Negative bicarbonate is OK. It's your pH that matters.

 

[zwiller]

+1 'tis normal.

Not sure if you used acid before but it appears you have some modest alkalinity in your water and with acidification of sparge you might pickup some flavor from the acid. This can be a good thing or bad. Consider cutting 50/50 with distilled to lower the acid requirements if you are looking to minimize flavor contributions from the acid.

 

[mabrungard]

Negative bicarbonate reporting is just an accounting measure for the surfeit or deficit of protons in the mashing water. You should ignore the fact that negative bicarbonate is typically reported. All pale beer brewing requires more acidity (aka: protons or negative bicarbonate) in the mashing water to help the mashing pH fall into the proper range.

 

[arnobg]

My sparge water is only a gallon and only requires 0.23ml and mash is 2.3ml. Is this going to cause off tastes in my Saison?

Besides the pH for this style my water profile is pretty bare minimum as a base.

 

[zwiller]

Only you can decide that ultimately, but I was under the impression you would be using over 4ml > "2 x 2.3ml". You are probably fine. I prefer phosphoric acid for this which is the most flavor neutral but many are happy with using lactic. From reading various literature about Belgians/Farmhouse styles, these breweries traditionally use "mineral" acid. IE phosphoric. Best of luck!

 

[arnobg]

Thanks for the tip I will consider that next brew, I plan of doing a lot of Saisons this summer. Will probably pick up a Farmhouse Ale book and do some reading.

 

[ajdelange]

I've gone into the scientific explanations enough times that I don't want to again and perhaps a simpler way of looking at it would make it more understandable:

You open an account in a new bank that gives good interest rates, doesn't nickle and dime you on every use of the ATM machine and doesn't charge a fee for overdrafts which you don't seem to be able to avoid. This bank has one quirk, though. They do all accounting in Bahraini Dinar even though the bank is located in the States. If you deposit $800 your statement reads that you deposited +300 BD and if you overdraw by $160 your balance reads -60 BD. It's weird but as the Dinar is tied to the $ the conversion is always the same and you have the information you need. It's much the same with calling -1 mEq of protons -61 mg of bicarbonate. Weird but the info is there. Just divide by 61 and you have what you need to know.

 

[zwiller]

Didn't the dinar revalue?

 

[ajdelange]

Possible. Haven't been there in quite a while.

The problem from the scientific perspective is that sometimes a dinar is in the analogy, a US $ (bicarb = 61* mEq) and sometimes its a Canadian dollar (bicarb = actual amount of bicarb) and I can't figure out how to tell which is when.

Edit:No, apparently not. 3 BD ~ 7.98 USD at the moment.