Needed: Sam Adams Cherry Wheat clone

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ThreeTaps

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Tonight I decided to try the Sam Adams Cherry Wheat...

...I'm in love.


Anybody know where I can get either a kit to make it, or know the ingredients etc?

I've been brewing for 1 week now, so I haven't the slightest idea. AHB doesn't seem to have anything close, from what I saw.

Thanks.
 

Cpt_Kirks

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5 gallon batch? Extract?

4.00lbs Wheat Dry Malt Extract
2.00lbs Light Dry Malt Extract

1.0oz Hallertau Hersbruck @ 60m

Danstar Munich Wheat Beer Yeast

Add 2oz cherry extract at bottling/kegging.

:mug:
 
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ThreeTaps

ThreeTaps

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Thanks for the ingredients, Cpt_Kirks!

How does this recipe sound to you all?

1lb. Wheat DME
8 oz. Cara Pils
3.3 lbs. Wheat LME
3.3 lbs. Light LME
1 oz. Hallertau (Bittering)
0.5 oz. Hallertau (Aroma)
Wyeast 1056 American Ale
1 can Oregon Cherry Fruit Puree (added into secondary)
1 packet pectic enzyme (eliminate cloudyness from puree)
Priming sugar for bottling
2 oz Cherry Extract (Added in bottling bucket)


Also, for this recipe, would I just follow the standard extract procedure, adding a secondary in for the puree flavor?
 

carbon111

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The extract is just flavoring. You'll still need to prime with corn sugar or DME.
 

carbon111

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I'd use a wheat yeast instead of the 1056. Also, you may want to use a dry yeast as it obviates the need for a starter.

Also why the combo of DME and LME, why not just use one or the other?
 
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ThreeTaps

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I'd use a wheat yeast instead of the 1056. Also, you may want to use a dry yeast as it obviates the need for a starter.

Also why the combo of DME and LME, why not just use one or the other?
Thanks, how's this look:


8 oz. Cara Pils
4.3 lbs. Wheat LME
3.3 lbs. Light LME
1 oz. Hallertau (Bittering)
0.5 oz. Hallertau (Aroma)
Danstar Munich Wheat Yeast
1 can Oregon Cherry Fruit Puree (added into secondary)
1 packet pectic enzyme (eliminate cloudyness from puree)
Priming sugar for bottling
2 oz Cherry Extract (Added in bottling bucket)
 

carbon111

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You may want to bump the Wheat LME to 4.5 lbs...DME is more concentrated than LME. (.8 lb DME = 1 lb LME)

Otherwise it looks good to me. I'd drink it! :mug:
 
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ThreeTaps

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Great, thanks!

Final Recipe:

8 oz. Cara Pils
4.5 lbs. Wheat LME
3.3 lbs. Light LME
1 oz. Hallertau (Bittering)
0.5 oz. Hallertau (Aroma)
Danstar Munich Wheat Yeast
1 can Oregon Cherry Fruit Puree (added into secondary)
1 packet pectic enzyme (eliminate cloudyness from puree)
Priming sugar for bottling
2 oz Cherry Extract (Added in bottling bucket)

Now for actually making it, do I follow the regular extract method and do the following:

1) Just before the boil, add both LME's in as well as the Cara pils (muslin bag?) and stir well.
2) Bring to boil, add 1 oz Hallertau in a muslin bag. Boil for 60 min.
3) 50 min into the boil, add 0.5oz Hallertau in a muslin bag. Boil for 10 min.
4) Remove both hops bags, transfer to ice bath.
5) Prepare the dry Danstar Munich Wheat Yeast, and pitch once the wort has cooled down from an ice bath.
6) Leave in primary fermentor for 10 days.
7) Transfer to secondary fermentor, add Cherry Fruit Puree and pectic enzyme. Stir slowly but well. Leave in secondary for 2 weeks.
8) Transfer to bottles, adding priming sugar and cherry extract.

I apologize if I'm way off on a step or two...I've only done one batch of a Blonde Ale kit. It was very simple.
 

carbon111

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My only comments on your process would be to steep the grains for 30 min at 160 F (and then remove them ;)) before the initial boil.

Put the puree in your secondary first and rack onto that...you probably won't need to stir. The yeast will stir up the puree pretty well - you'll get a secondary ferment when they eat all the fruit sugar.

BTW - that's a good idea to use the cherry puree instead of relying on just the flavor extract alone, that keeps your beer from tasting too much like cough syrup. :)

I've used the Oregon purees myself with good results. :rockin:
 
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ThreeTaps

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Thanks again, carbon111. You've been a ton of help.

This I'm sure is a noob/stupid question, but I don't believe (unless I'm really off base here) I had the steeping grains listed in the ingredients, so do I just get any standard steeping grains at my LHBS? How much do I need?
 

Edcculus

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I'd use a wheat yeast instead of the 1056. Also, you may want to use a dry yeast as it obviates the need for a starter.
Does Sam Adams actually use a wheat yeast strain on their Cherry Wheat? I'd venture to say its an American wheat style, and does not use Weizen yeast.
 

Cpt_Kirks

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Does Sam Adams actually use a wheat yeast strain on their Cherry Wheat? I'd venture to say its an American wheat style, and does not use Weizen yeast.
I have used wheat yeast in my cherry wheat brews, but for the blueberry wheat I have now (with another batch fermenting) I used US-05.

The cherry extract makes it taste like the SA, which is not too great, kind of a cherry candy or cough syrup flavor.

However, blueberry extract (which for some reason smells like ink in the bottle) actually tastes like blueberries when mixed with beer.
 

carbon111

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I don't believe I had the steeping grains listed in the ingredients?
You've got half a pound of Cara Pils listed. :)

Cara Pils should be mashed actually...
You could just use around 4 ounces of Malto Dextrin instead of the Cara Pils and get roughly the same effect (mouthfeel and head-retention). You wouldn't have to steep or mash anything then. ;)

...and Edcculus is probably correct in saying that SA doesn't use a wheat yeast strain. You might try Safale US-05 if you just want a clean american strain.
 
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ThreeTaps

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Thanks again for the knowledge.

So here's what my final recipe will be:

4 oz Malto Dextrin
4.5 lbs. Wheat LME
3.3 lbs. Light LME
1 oz. Hallertau (Bittering)
0.5 oz. Hallertau (Aroma)
Safale US-05 Yeast
1 can Oregon Cherry Fruit Puree (added into secondary)
1 packet pectic enzyme (eliminate cloudyness from puree)
Priming sugar for bottling
2 oz Cherry Extract (Added in bottling bucket)

Now, I just follow the same procedure listed earlier except for the steeping I would presume. Also, as for the malto dextrin, I just throw that in with the boil right?
 

carbon111

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Yeah, I'd say you've nailed it for an extract recipe. Now just figure when you're going to add the hops. 60min and 5min maybe?

Please let us know how it turns out! :mug:
 
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Yeah, I'd say you've nailed it for an extract recipe. Now just figure when you're going to add the hops. 60min and 5min maybe?

Please let us know how it turns out! :mug:
Thanks! I definitely will do that. I just bought all ingredients from AHS (minus the light LME since they don't have it), and will visit my local store tomorrow for the cherry puree and the extract.

Can't wait to taste this one in 6-7 weeks!
 

Gremlyn

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I would do the following:

1) Heat 1 - 1.5 gal water to 160-ish and steep the specialty grains for 20 mins (lid on). Shooting for 155F final temp once grains are added.
2) Remove grain, crank the heat and bring to boil.
3) Add about 1/2 of the extract, once it is dissolved, add the bittering hops
4) With 15 min left add the rest of the extract
5) Add the aroma hops at 10 min left
6) End boil and remove bag(s), cool.
7) Prepare the dry Danstar Munich Wheat Yeast, and pitch once the wort has cooled down from an ice bath.
8) Leave in primary fermentor for 14 days.
9) Put cherry puree and enzyme in secondary, rack beer on top of puree. NO STIRRING, don't want to add any oxygen!
10) Secondary for 2 weeks.
11) Transfer to bottles, adding priming sugar and cherry extract (only if needed; taste a little to see how much cherry flavour you have).
 

carbon111

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Thanks! I definitely will do that. I just bought all ingredients from AHS (minus the light LME since they don't have it), and will visit my local store tomorrow for the cherry puree and the extract.

Can't wait to taste this one in 6-7 weeks!
BTW: Light LME is equivalent to Extra Pale LME, so AHS does have it.
Next time, eh? ;)
 
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ThreeTaps

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BTW: Light LME is equivalent to Extra Pale LME, so AHS does have it.
Next time, eh? ;)
Awww man, I just called AHS and they JUST finished sealing the box and slapping the shipping label on. Definitely next time.

For now, I'll give my LHBS a visit for that as well as for a secondary fermentor. Would you recommend a carboy or another Ale Pail? (Light penetrating the vessel isn't an issue, as it's stored in a bathtub and the window has the blinds down.)
 

carbon111

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It's your choice. I secondary in buckets all the time though I do have a couple of carboys. Another bucket is probably easier/cheaper...
 

Gremlyn

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I would stick to the ale pale... BUT Home Brew Mart had a few 6.5 gal Better Bottles in there a couple of days ago. If they have them still, I'd go with that.
 

carbon111

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That's a big beer. I get 1.074 as OG on a 5G batch.
Weird. Based on his recipe, I get 1.058 for 5 gallons and 1.053 for 5.5 gallons.

The stats for the actual beer:
Samuel Adams Cherry Wheat Ale
BREWERY: Boston Beer Company, Boston, MA, USA
FIRST BREWED: 1995
CALORIES/SERVING: 180 per 12 oz. bottle
BITTERNESS:
ABV: 5.35%
ORIGINAL GRAVITY: 13° Plato (1052.85)
MALTS: Two Row Pale, Malted Wheat, Munich
HOPS: Tettnang Tettnanger Noble
If he brews 5.5 gallons, he's right in line as far as I can tell...
 

dontman

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Weird. Based on his recipe, I get 1.058 for 5 gallons and 1.053 for 5.5 gallons.

The stats for the actual beer:

If he brews 5.5 gallons, he's right in line as far as I can tell...
How much are you counting for the cherry puree? There are 118 gravity points for the the entire 49 oz can. Translates to an increase of .023 in OG for a 5 gallon batch.

Without any puree I get 1.057 so unless one completely ignores the addition of basically 3.3 pounds of sugar in the puree then 1.058 would be reasonable but why would you ignore all that sugar?
 

carbon111

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In one can of Oregon puree? I'll bet there's enough sugar to bump the ABV maybe one percent, if that.

I used two cans of Oregon cherry puree in the secondary for my Cherry Tree Porter and only had a very slight bump from the calculated FG.
 
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ThreeTaps

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Thanks again everybody (especially carbon111) for all the help. I went to my LHBS today and picked up the light LME I needed, as well as another pail, etc. I'm all set to start my cherry wheat as soon as the ingredients arrive from AHS!

Who ever would have thought that brewing beer would be so much fun?

In any case, I'm interested to see how the "big brew or not" debate goes. I wouldn't be too let down if it is a big beer though...that means a higher alcohol content right? Is that a good thing in this case?
 

dontman

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In one can of Oregon puree? I'll bet there's enough sugar to bump the ABV maybe one percent, if that.

I used two cans of Oregon cherry puree in the secondary for my Cherry Tree Porter and only had a very slight bump from the calculated FG.
Yes, in one can of Oregon Puree. There is a ton of sugar in puree. 118 gravity points worth in 49 ounces to be exact. No more no less. And no it would not affect the FG nearly at all since almost the entire amount of sugar is fermentable. (Fructose being one of the more fermentable of our lovely sugar molecules.Sucrose being another.) My FG goes up .001 on a 5 gallon batch when I use a can of puree. MY OG, otoh, goes up .023 on a five gallon batch.

The net difference means a 1.7% boost in ABV. From 5.6 to 7.3% on five gallons. roughly.

And Two taps, I'm right with brother as far as the big beer thing. This will be one of the easiest drinking 7.3% beers you can make. I just thought I would mention the bump from the puree since so many people seem to be unaware of it.
 

dontman

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My current Apricot beer is 7.1% and sneaks up on you like a ninja. I love it. Except on the golf course. Front nine is ok, but the back nine becomes very sloppy.
 
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It seems this thread is getting more exposure than another I made, so I'll ask here...

Would it still taste good, and like a real blueberry beer, if I take my Blonde Ale that's been in the primary for 12 days now and move it to secondary, adding a can of Oregon Blueberry Puree and 1oz pectic enzyme, then let it sit for another 10 - 14 days. Then add 2oz of Blueberry extract at bottling time?
 

Plan9

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It seems this thread is getting more exposure than another I made, so I'll ask here...

Would it still taste good, and like a real blueberry beer, if I take my Blonde Ale that's been in the primary for 12 days now and move it to secondary, adding a can of Oregon Blueberry Puree and 1oz pectic enzyme, then let it sit for another 10 - 14 days. Then add 2oz of Blueberry extract at bottling time?
It would probably be fine, but...

As a new brewer, I would suggest working on bewing and perfecting more straight beer styles before getting too much into fruits, extracts, and other additives. A bad beer will not be improved by adding flavorings.
 
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It would probably be fine, but...

As a new brewer, I would suggest working on bewing and perfecting more straight beer styles before getting too much into fruits, extracts, and other additives. A bad beer will not be improved by adding flavorings.
Thanks Plan9, I do intend on brewing a lot of more straight beer styles as well. I just really like fruit beers right now (I've been a wine-o for about 4 years, which is why) and wanted to make the Blonde a Blueberry without botching it.

If it won't taste great, how a blueberry beer should taste, then I won't do it and I'll stick with the Blonde. I haven't even tasted the Blonde yet...hah.
 

dontman

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(I will comment since you ask in a thread in which I am involved, I didn't want to post in the other lest you feel I was stalking you) I am not a fan of the extracts. I get an artificial, almost medicinal twang from them, especially the cherry. I believe a lot of people share this feeling.

But here's the thing, it really is a matter of personal taste so my opinion and others too, is of little import. You have already said what a big fan you are of the Cherry Wheat. I believe that is the second or third most hated beer on this site due to that cough syrup taste (read the thread on dumpable beers.)

So if you like it then by all means use it but like others have said just be careful. If I were you I would try it with just the puree before adding any extract. Actually, if I were you, I would just stick with kit recipes of basic styles for at least the first dozen or so batches.
 

Gremlyn

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First dozen? Damn right there's no fun there, I went AG after 4 batches and only made one kit ever :p I guess it depends on what you're looking for, but I love to experiment (I do it with cooking too). As for your blonde, I'd leave it as is for this batch.
 

dontman

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Actually kits didn't even exist during my first couple hundred batches so we were forced to just create recipes by feel.

More what I mean is that I don't think you are giving the sheer amazingness of homebrew the chance to show through if you are talking about completely eclipsing the deliciosity with a bunch of fruit.

Not to say that a fruit beer is not good and fun and all that but you are shortchanging that blonde if you don't believe that it will be one of the finest you ever put your mouth on without adornment.

Now if you were talking about adding a bunch of fruit or meat or whatever to a bottle of bud to make it palatable then I would say 'hell yeah, go for it' it needs it big time but this is completely different.

My advice was more directed at exploring some of the more straightforward styles to get a bearing on what to expect. Do a stout, a bitter, a pale ale, a belgian, a hefe, etc, then think about what you can do to expand. At this point you don't know what you have that you are expanding on. Believe me, there is plenty of fun in discovering that you just made one of the best simple beers you ever tasted.
 
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Thanks for the tip, red dog. I've decided to keep the Blonde as is, and do a Blueberry Wheat later on.
 
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