Need some pointers for improving efficiency with my setup

[Brak23]

Hey there,

Ive read a lot on this forum and found numerous things that are super helpful for me, but I'm struggling to improve my mash efficiency past 65%. I know its not super important, but I see people who follow similar processes as me and are hitting 70-80% efficiency.

So I was hoping I could detail my process and hopefully get some pointers.

I use BeerSmith to get my calculated water, temperature , etc.

Grain Crush:
Currently using a mill of my own, set at approx. 0.33 for the gap

Mash tun:
60 quart rectangular cooler with copper manifold in the bottom (covers the majority of the bottom)
Typical mash temperature is about 152 degree F for all mashes and holds for 60 minutes.
After the 60 minutes I test with iodine and show full conversion

Lautering:
I take some initial runnings and pour them back over the grain bed. I typically open the valve about 1/2 open and the grain takes maybe 5 minutes to pour out with the initial water.
I then batch sparge with more water and stir and then sit for 5 minutes before opening 1/2 valve and it takes another 5 minutes

I live in Portland, OR and our water is pretty solid and I've read that the pH is not usually a problem here but I'm not sure why I can't get better mash conversion beyond 65%.

For reference, this was my recipe I did today:
Wheat Ale
6 lb 10 oz Brewers malt, 2-row
5 lbs 6.5 oz German Wheat Malt
2.4 oz Munich Malt
10 oz Rice Husks


If I left anything out that needs addressed, let me know. Im just hoping someone can pick apart my process and determine where my gap is with mash efficiency.

 

[Oginme]

First, let's get a handle on what you are referring to as efficiency. Are you talking about brew house efficiency (from grain to fermenter) or mash efficiency (grain to pre-boil wort)?

For the latter, mash efficiency, the largest effect on low mash efficiency is your grain crush. Ideally, you want to see small bits of grain kernels (about 1/8") on average with mostly intact grain hulls.

After that, you want to measure your mash pH to make sure you are in a good range for the enzymes to work well. Generally around 5.2 to 5.4 is a good target, but anywhere in the 5.0 to 5.8 range is acceptable.

Next, you will want to minimize mash tun losses. Are you tipping your cooler to make sure you can drain out as much wort as you can?

For overall (brew house) efficiency gains, you will also want to look at process losses from you kettle or residual wort after pouring into the fermenter.

 

[Brak23]

Hey there,

Thanks! I am talking about mash efficiency. I forgot to mention that I did buy my own grain mill, and its currently set at 0.33.

I am also tipping my mash tun at the end to get as much as possible.

I will look into pH, Ive read a lot about our water profile in Portland people didnt seem concerned at pH. But I will see what it reads out what it shows on my next batch.

 

[Dcpcooks]

What was your OG on the batch vs what was predicted in Beersmith? Have you set up your equipment profile in beersmith yet?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Assuming that's 0.033 for the gap, then the crush should be OK. As above though, have a look at the grains to make sure you aren't getting uncrushed grains through.

With a single batch sparge, I'd expect to see 75 to 80% mash efficiency, so there must be something wrong.
Have you checked your thermometer?
Are you thoroughly mixing?
How much liquid are you leaving behind? You should be leaving (soaked in the grain) about a half a quart per pound (give or take).
My biggest suspicion though is (as Oginme suggested) your water. Especially with the all base-malt beer you just brewed, I suspect your mash pH was probably quite high. Get a copy of your water report or use RO water.

EDIT: I've just googled Portlands water profile....it's some of the softest water in the world (not much different to RO water). pH shouldn't have been a problem with the beer you just brewed, but did you add any Calcium? There is only 1 to 2ppm in Portland water - most sources say you should have at least 40ppm!

 

[pricelessbrewing]

https://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/#EfficiencyEvaluation

If you have all the necessary measurements, you can plug it into my calculator above and get each efficiency component, and their respective score / 10.

 

[RM-MN]

The first thing I would try if I were getting that kind of mash efficiency is tightening the mill to .028. Since that may lead to a stuck mash the next thing I would do is moisten (condition) the grain. From there I would lengthen the mash period from 60 minutes to 90 minutes. If all those things didn't improve the mash efficiency I'd be asking questions on HomeBrewTalk.

 

[Brak23]

The first thing I would try if I were getting that kind of mash efficiency is tightening the mill to .028. Since that may lead to a stuck mash the next thing I would do is moisten (condition) the grain. From there I would lengthen the mash period from 60 minutes to 90 minutes. If all those things didn't improve the mash efficiency I'd be asking questions on HomeBrewTalk.

These are all great things, and I will give them a shot. Question on the "moistening of the grain" I don't know if I've heard of that before, what does it do? And does having rice husks in the mix for the mash reduce the risk of a stuck mash at .028?

 

[doug293cz]

Mash efficiency is equal to the conversion efficiency times the lauter efficiency. To diagnose mash eff. issues, you need to know if your conv. eff. is low, your lauter eff. is low, or both. Lots of software will calculate your mash efficiency for you. You can use the method linked in the next paragraph to determine your conversion efficiency. Finally you calculate your lauter eff. as mash eff. / conv. eff. (Note that BrewersFriend purports to calculate conversion efficiency, but last I checked they use an incorrect formula.)

I'm not a fan of the iodine test for mash completion. You can get misled if you don't include some grits in your sample (and they need to be crushed more after taking the sample.) A better test is monitoring the SG in the mash and comparing to the table here. You can also use the method there to calculate you conversion efficiency.

Have you measured the undrainable volume of your MLT? Your theoretical lauter efficiency could vary from 83%+ for 0 undrainable, down to 79%+ for 2 qts undrainable (all for a 12.2 lb grain bill @ 6.5 gal pre-boil volume, single batch sparge.)

Your grain bill for the latest batch contains a lot of wheat, which has smaller kernels than barley. You should do a test crush with just some of your wheat malt to insure that all grains get broken at your current mill gap setting. Uncrushed grain can lead to a big hit to conversion eff.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

These are all great things, and I will give them a shot. Question on the "moistening of the grain" I don't know if I've heard of that before, what does it do? And does having rice husks in the mix for the mash reduce the risk of a stuck mash at .028?

Moistening, known as conditioning, the grain, helps to prevent shredding of the grain husks, leading to a more porous grain bed, which may allow a finer crush without getting stuck mashes. The method is to spray the grain with 1.5 - 2.0% water by weight, mixing the grain up to distribute the water well, and then milling. Rice husks/hulls also lead to a more porous gain bed.

Brew on

 

[SGTSparty]

Lots of great suggestions here but with a .033 gap setting I was surprised to see your numbers. I just got my own mill and my numbers jumped drastically to 80+ from 62 with the setting set at .035 (and a stuck sparge the first time to boot) so I'm very surprised by your low numbers. All that to say, Have you double checked that your rollers haven't loosened? Maybe your gap was set there but has come loose?

 

[MonkeyMountain]

It's already been asked but I will ask again, are you treating your water at all (adding calcium or anything?). How many quarts of water per pound of grain are you using? Are you periodically stirring the mash? Are you doughing in sufficiently?

 

[eric19312]

I tried conditioning a long time ago for about 6-10 batches and saw no real improvement in efficiency. Tighter crush was achieved and lautered well but really in the end it was not worth getting my mill gummed up.

I agree you have a very light grain bill and pH could be a culprit.

I would say the biggest improvement I saw when I batched sparge was following Yooper's advice with respect to stirring in the sparge water. Something along the lines of: get in there and stir it like it owes you money. That phrase stuck with me and I probably increased my stirring effort 4 fold and saw real improvement.

 

[bajaedition]

At some point, every brewer has to accept his system gets this efficiency. I have had a few different systems over the years and can say that I have added a few ounces of malt to one system to adjust OG. Stressing over a few ounces of malt can get frustrating. This is a hobby and we are all on a long learning curve, so relax and have a home brew.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I think you should recheck your mill gap and stir your mash a few times next batch.

 

[Brak23]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to respond back with some happy results. I took a little break from brewing due to things happening in life and today was my first brew in a while. I did two things today that I feel that pushed my efficiency up from 65% to 76%.

The first thing I did was to adjust my grain mill, I did the "credit card" gap and my crush was beautiful -- I worried it might have been a little too fine but I had rice hulls on hand to help prevent stuck sparges. This was actually the first brew where I had dough balls a plenty that I had to break up in the mash.

The second thing I did was allow my lauter to go a bit slower and ensure the full tun drains as complete as possible before adding batch spare water. I actually got this pointer from the Brew Strong Podcast, and tried to make sure I let a full slower drain happen before batch spare.

The combo (which I am guessing is mostly from the crush gap) really helped push my mash efficiency up. I appreciate everyones feedback -- its been a real help in my quest to make good brews

 

[RM-MN]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to respond back with some happy results. I took a little break from brewing due to things happening in life and today was my first brew in a while. I did two things today that I feel that pushed my efficiency up from 65% to 76%.

The first thing I did was to adjust my grain mill, I did the "credit card" gap and my crush was beautiful -- I worried it might have been a little too fine but I had rice hulls on hand to help prevent stuck sparges. This was actually the first brew where I had dough balls a plenty that I had to break up in the mash.

The second thing I did was allow my lauter to go a bit slower and ensure the full tun drains as complete as possible before adding batch spare water. I actually got this pointer from the Brew Strong Podcast, and tried to make sure I let a full slower drain happen before batch spare.

The combo (which I am guessing is mostly from the crush gap) really helped push my mash efficiency up. I appreciate everyones feedback -- its been a real help in my quest to make good brews

Good start. Now tighten up the mill a little more. Each time you tighten it your efficiency should increase....and so will the possibility of a stuck sparge but you know that rice hulls will help eliminate that. So will lining the mash tun with a fine mesh bag as the bag then becomes the filter and if part of it plugs you just lift it a bit to expose a different part.

 

[Brak23]

Good start. Now tighten up the mill a little more. Each time you tighten it your efficiency should increase....and so will the possibility of a stuck sparge but you know that rice hulls will help eliminate that. So will lining the mash tun with a fine mesh bag as the bag then becomes the filter and if part of it plugs you just lift it a bit to expose a different part.

Thanks for the info! Ill try that. I actually need to correct myself, beer smith said I have a mash efficiency of 83.3% -- which is fantastic given my usual 63-65%. But I just listened to a brulosophy podcast on the Mash in a bag concept - and Im very interested in that!