Need Opinions On My First Recipe

[mikeyk12]

I love huge hoppy IPAs with floral fruit and resinous pine notes. My idea with this recipe was to combine the fruity floral aspects of Hoppicratic Oath (a variation of Sculpin) with some resinous pine characteristics of Pliny The Younger. Here's what I came up with and would love any opinions on what you think would balance it out. I'm also very new to home brewing.

Steep 1 pound of Caravienna
6 lbs extra light DME
WLP090 starter
60 minute additions:
.5 oz Warrior 17.2% AA
.5 oz Magnum 13% AA
.5 oz Columbus 14.5% AA
.5 oz Simcoe
.5 oz CTZ

30 minute additions:
.75 oz Centennial
.75 oz Simcoe

15 minute addition:
Whirlfloc

Flameout additions:
1 oz Amarillo
1 oz Simcoe
1 oz Centennial


Dry Hop 1: .25oz ea: Amarillo, Simcoe, Centennial
Dry Hop 2: .5oz ea: Amarillo, Centenial
Dry Hop 3: .5oz ea: Simcoe, CTZ
Dry Hop 4: .5oz ea Amarillo, Simcoe

 

[dxbq48]

I have not run this trough my software yet, but it sure looks like this will be one bitter son of a *****. That is a crap ton of hops to use at 60 min for such a small IPA...if you can even call that an IPA.

Edit: So I just did a quick estimate of the IBU's from just the 60 min addition and it's telling me a whopping 139. I would try to keep this no higher than 50-60 if you are only using 6 lbs of LME. This might work out if you double the amount of LME that you use. I would also consider dropping the Simcoe and Columbus entirely from the 60 addition. You could add the simcoe in to the flameout addition. This would put you right in the range of an Imperial IPA.

Cheers!

 

[dobe12]

I don't get all the different hops being used. You don't need 5 different bittering hops and you DEFINITELY don't need that much for bittering. Did you enter this into a program to see what your IBUs would be? I'd stick with one bittering hop. Personally I prefer Magnum. It's clean and pretty neutral.

I don't get the 30min additions either. At 30min you're losing most/all of the aroma and flavor. I'd move those down to 20 or 15 min additions to get something other than bitterness out of them.

I love the flame out additions. Looks like you'll have some nice big aroma/flavor.

And again with the dry hopping. Why 4 different additions using all those hops?

I'm not trying to disparage you, but you need to think about why you are adding what you are, when you are. I like a nice big dry hop, but don't get the 4 different additions. Personally I'd cut the number of different hops down to 3-4 varieties at the most. Limit the bittering to one variety and condense that dry hop to one or maybe two additions.

Just my opinions, but this recipe seems very complex and muddled.

 

[HappiBrew]

I agree, the 60 minute addition is quite out of proportion to the malt bill. I would both raise the grain/extract and lower the 60 min addition. I would probably cut out the Magnum and Warrior out all together and add a pound of DME. Otherwise, looks like it should be tasty. Let us know what you did and how it turned out.

 

[HappiBrew]

I don't get all the different hops being used. You don't need 5 different bittering hops and you DEFINITELY don't need that much for bittering. Did you enter this into a program to see what your IBUs would be? I'd stick with one bittering hop. Personally I prefer Magnum. It's clean and pretty neutral.

I don't get the 30min additions either. At 30min you're losing most/all of the aroma and flavor. I'd move those down to 20 or 15 min additions to get something other than bitterness out of them.

I love the flame out additions. Looks like you'll have some nice big aroma/flavor.

And again with the dry hopping. Why 4 different additions using all those hops?

I'm not trying to disparage you, but you need to think about why you are adding what you are, when you are. I like a nice big dry hop, but don't get the 4 different additions. Personally I'd cut the number of different hops down to 3-4 varieties at the most. Limit the bittering to one variety and condense that dry hop to one or maybe two additions.

Just my opinions, but this recipe seems very complex and muddled.

My thoughts exactly. An interesting article on how many hop varieties go into the best beers. Not something that should be set in stone, but something to think about. More than 3-4 hops and you can get muddled, less than 2-3 can be one note. But there are certainly exceptions. http://www.bear-flavored.com/2013/09/how-many-hop-varieties-are-in-best-ipas.html

 

[mikeyk12]

Thanks a bunch for the insanely fast replies. I knew there were going to be issues with this, which is really the reason I posted. People on the other forum questioned why there were so many hops in the Sculpin IPA recipe but they determined it worked. The thinking behind 4 dry hop additions is because that's what RR does with Pliny the Younger. I would remove the trub for each addition so the hop exposure is limited to 7 days before being replaced with fresh ones. I would the definitely up the LME if that would produce a more balanced beer. I do not mind high ABV.

Here is the hopocratic oath recipe
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/hoppicratic-oath-257496/

And here's the Pliny the younger clone recipe I am looking at
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/pliny-younger-clone-332084

Since I'm quite new to where and when to use hops, could someone help me combine these 2 better?

 

[dobe12]

Lots of hops between the two. What I would do is pare it down a bit and go from there.

First, CTZ stands for (Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus) which are all relatively the same hop. Since you're already using Columbus, just drop the CTZ.

I don't think you need 3-5 different bittering hops. I'd just go with Columbus since it calls for it in one recipe and you will be using it later for dry hopping. So add columbus at 60min to get you somewhere around 60IBU. If you're set on using multiple bittering hops add whatever you like, but then back off on the columbus and still try to keep your IBUs around 60 or so from bittering only. You'll get more IBUs from later additions.

Then you have Centennial, Simcoe, Amarillo, and Columbus again. Personally what I would do is weight out 3oz each of Centennial, Simcoe, and Amarillo and blend them together giving you 9oz total. Add 2oz around 15-20min, 3oz at flame out, and use the last 4oz to dry hop along with an ounce or so of Columbus. Again, I wouldn't worry about the 4 different dry hop additions. I'd just do one addition for 5-7 days.

It's tough trying to develop a specific flavor especially when trying to blend two recipes. First off, who knows if those recipes are any good and really come out tasting like what they are trying to clone? You may be trying to duplicate a mistake, ya know?

 

[mikeyk12]

Haha CTZ, no wonder I was having trouble finding that hop! Ok awesome, I will get it down to something like 4 different hops total and definitely up the LME and maybe add a pound of DME.

 

[mikeyk12]

Does this sound more reasonable?

9 lbs extra light DME

60 minute additions:
1oz Magnum

20 minute additions:
.75 oz Centennial

15 minute addition:
Whirlfloc
.75 oz Simcoe

Flameout additions:
1 oz Amarillo
1 oz Simcoe
1 oz Centennial

 

[dxbq48]

Does this sound more reasonable?

9 lbs extra light DME

60 minute additions:
1oz Magnum

20 minute additions:
.75 oz Centennial

15 minute addition:
Whirlfloc
.75 oz Simcoe

Flameout additions:
1 oz Amarillo
1 oz Simcoe
1 oz Centennial

Looks good!

 

[ddrrseio]

mid-additions are something people have very different views on. i suggest you try this as you have it now and try it again later with a more robust 30 min addition. some believe that a 30 min addition creates a stronger flavor to support the hoppy aroma you get from late additions and dry hopping.

 

[mikeyk12]

Thanks again guys. I really needed some advice so I could edit my recipe down. I plan on doing the hop additions as listed and then, later with another batch, if it is actually decent and worth it, to do a robust 30 min addition to see if I can taste a difference.

I still plan on doing some form of double addition or more with the dry hopping. Russian River's recipe for Pliny the Elder calls for 2 weeks in the secondary with hops added and removed after 7 days, then replaced with new hops. Pliny the Younger goes 4 weeks with 4 additions. I'm not saying this is the sole reason why these beers are some of the most coveted IPAs around, but I think this has to have at least a minor effect. I may only do 2 or 3 additions and call it at that but I'm not sure yet.


This is my final recipe I think. I replaced the magnum 60 minute with Columbus and am keeping it at 4 hop varieties. I'm hoping this is a nice mix and has some flavor other than indiscernable bitter. Cheers!

10lbs LME

60 minute additions:
1oz Columbus

30 minute additions:
1.25oz blend Amarillo, Simcoe, and Centennial

20 minute additions:
1.25oz blend of Amarillo, Simcoe, and Centennial

15 minute addition:
Whirlfloc

Flameout additions:
1oz Amarillo
1oz Simcoe
1oz Centennial


Dry Hop 1: .25oz ea: Amarillo, Simcoe, Centennial
Dry Hop 2: .5oz ea: Amarillo, Centenial
Dry Hop 3: .5oz ea: Simcoe, Columbus
Dry Hop 4: .5oz ea Amarillo, Simcoe, Centennial

 

[mikeyk12]

I wasn't quite satisfied with the recipe so I tweaked it more. Hopefully I'm not getting overly complex again.

1.25lbs caravienna
8lbs extra light DME
1lb Amber LME
1L WLP090 Starter

60 minute additions:
.55oz Columbus

30 minute additions:
.55oz blend of Amarillo, Simcoe, and Centennial
.25 Citra

20 minute additions:
1oz blend of Amarillo, Simcoe, and Centennial

15 minute addition:
Whirlfloc

Flameout additions:
1 oz Amarillo
1 oz Centennial
1 oz Simcoe
.5 Citra

Single dry hop addition
1oz Simcoe
.75oz Centennial
.75oz Amarillo
.5oz Citra