Need IPA recipe help!!

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NScooknet

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Hi all,

I made a really good Coopers IPS by adding some grains and my own hops to it, and some DME as well, I was REALLy impressed with it, and will definitely brew it again.

What I'm considering at this time is brewing the same beer only this time NOT adding the can of Coopers ale to it.

What do you think will happen?

The last batch was my very 1st attempt at using grains, and I do not have AG equipment, just a 15 L pot, so I'm making due with what I have for now.

I brought the water up to 150 degrees, then steeped 0.5lb of Caramel (C-20) 'Crystal' Malt and 0.5lb of Briess 2-Row in a mesh bag for about 30 mins, then removed the grains and added 1.2kg DME once it came to a boil, then I added the hops at the intervals.

I did not add any sugar, just the DME, and i found that the end result was a bit on the weak side (alcohol content wise that is), it was OG 1:042 and FG 1.014 i think if memory serves me correctly.

I'm wondering if not adding the Coopers can of extract and adding a bit of sugar to the wort would kick up the alcohol content at all, or would it wreck things?

I found the beer to be quite thick, so i was wondering if simply omitting the Coopers can of extract would result in a lighter beer, but not lose the good flavour.

Here is the list of ingredients I have, and maybe you could tell me what you think the proper proportions would be of each to make a successful batch of brew with the ingredients I have on hand.

-Briess 2-Row Malt

-Caramel (C-20) 'Crystal' Malt

-Fresh dried Chinook Hops

-Fresh Dried Columbus hops

-light Breiss DME

-A 1kg bag of Muntons beer kit enhancer

-Safale US-05 yeast

So, what do you think?

Could I make a decent beer with these ingredients only?

Would I use the beer kit enhancer, AND the DME, AND corn sugar, or only one of these??

Thanks!
Chris :)
 

brtisbuck

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Sugar will tend to dry it out. More DME= higher og = more ABV. If you increase the gravity enough you may also need to increase the other ingredients as will to balance it out. If you take your og from 1.042 to say 1.06 your IBUs will drop.

The 2-row is a base malt and needs to be mashed not steeped. You could almost do away with that and use all DME and steeped crystal. It is in essence doing the same thing as light DME when mashed. You will want to put your recipe into a calculator or software to see what the projected outcome will be, especially where bitterness is concearned. It will tell you what your og will be given your batch size and amount of extract. It will also tell you your IBU's and SRM (or color).
 
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NScooknet

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Sugar will tend to dry it out. More DME= higher og = more ABV. If you increase the gravity enough you may also need to increase the other ingredients as will to balance it out. If you take your og from 1.042 to say 1.06 your IBUs will drop.
So what do you think I should do??

I'm just trying to use up what I have before I need to buy more ingredients.

I've got a couple pounds of the crystal and 2 row malt left, and maybe the same amount of DME, plus the Muntons beer kit enhancer, which I assume is DME also?

What proportions of these ingredients do you think will turn out ok?

Hops are not a problem, I have a few pounds of each type...lol

Chris :)
 

castlefreak

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How much total extract are you using? That info will help determine what, if anything, you need to add to up the ABV.
 
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NScooknet

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How much total extract are you using? That info will help determine what, if anything, you need to add to up the ABV.
OK,
I'm using beersmith 2 (as per your suggestion) and it's the first time using it actually, and I have the following ingredients and ratios:

Columbus (Tomahawk) hops .5oz 25 min boil

Chinook hops .5oz 5 min boil

Columbus (Tomahawk) 1oz 60 min boil

Pale Malt (2 Row) US 2lbs

Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L 3lbs

Light Dry Extract 3lbs

Safale American US-05

It gives the following results:

OG 1.045 - 1.056

IBU's 34.2

Color 10.7

EST ABV 5.5%


The thing of it is, that doesn't really tell you how it will TASTE...lol.

So what do you think?
 

brtisbuck

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By style an IPA should have at least 40 IBU (i believe). 3lbs crystal seems like an aweful lot. I believe you want to keep the amount of crystal malt below 10% of your grain bill. It could end up way too sweet. Lower the amount of crystal and make up for your intended og in DME. (sorry I don't have beersmith on the machine.) If you like hop forward IPA's, move your 25 min addition to 15, add one at 10, and then hit it once more at flameout. You will want to get your IBU's to at least 40, the flame out addition (or 5min aroma steep) won't add bitterness.
 
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NScooknet

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Well, I took your suggestions, and just finished my brew.

I pitched the yeast in the wort, and then took the SG, and found that it was only 1.030.

Does this mean that it's going to be a really weak alcohol beer now?

I'm surprised, I followed your instructions, and also used the beersmith program, but since I do not have a lauder tun and am only doing this in a pot with a mesh bag is this because not enough sugar came out of the grain to boost the SG??

Should I put some of the wort in a sterile sanitized cup and then add some corn sugar and then dump it back in the wort even though the yeast has already been pitched to raise the SG???
 

bobbrews

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I'm not sure if the ingredients you listed are what you had on hand, or what you actually used. Can you please list your final recipe in the below format? This is how a pretty good partial mash IPA recipe will typically read...

Boil Length: 60 min.
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Plain Top Off Water: None
Collected Batch Size: 5 gallons
Estimated OG: 1.063-1.065
Actual OG: 1.064

60 minute mash at 151 F:

X lbs. / X oz. American 2-row
X lbs. / X oz. Munich Malt
X lbs. / X oz. White Wheat

Boil:

Add X lbs. / X oz. Light DME @ 60 min.

Hops:

X oz. Columbus 14% pellets @ 60 min.

X oz. Amarillo 10% pellets @ 10 min.
X oz. Citra 13% pellets @ 10 min.
X oz. Amarillo 10% pellets @ flameout
X oz. Citra 13% pellets @ flameout
X oz. Amarillo 10% pellets @ 7 day dryhop
X oz. Citra 13% pellets @ 7 day dryhop

Safale 05 yeast
 

brtisbuck

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Did you "mash" or "steep" the grains? What was your process there? Also, did you have your equipment profile and brew type correct in Beersmith when you input the info? By that I mean this would classify as a partial mash. You would have needed to mash the 2 row to gain the proper gravity from it. When brewing extract, it is hard to miss your gravity provided you are working with the proper volume of water. When mashing, your efficiency can get quite skewed if your process is incorrect or your profiles in Beersmith are incorrect.

Also, you should take your og reading prior to pitching the yeast...that will throw it off a touch. The temp of your gravity sample may require an adjustment to your reading if it wasn't 60* as well.
 

bobbrews

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Did you "mash" or "steep" the grains? What was your process there? Also, did you have your equipment profile and brew type correct in Beersmith when you input the info? By that I mean this would classify as a partial mash. You would have needed to mash the 2 row to gain the proper gravity from it. When brewing extract, it is hard to miss your gravity provided you are working with the proper volume of water. When mashing, your efficiency can get quite skewed if your process is incorrect or your profiles in Beersmith are incorrect.
Good points.

Also, was the grain crushed or whole?
 
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NScooknet

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Thanks for all your input, I appreciate it!

I am just using a 15L pot, and "steeping" the grains.

I entered partial mash into beersmith as the type, and as a 3 gallon batch.

I actually am making a 23L batch, but have to brew in the small 15L pot and then top up with water in the fermenter.

I actually ended up taking some wort and filling a 1 liter container with it, and then adding a cup of dextrose (corn sugar) to it, and then I added it back into the fermenter and then stirred it all up, and took another SG reading, at which it was bumped up to 1.040. I hope this didn't screw up the yeasties at all.

I actually "forgot" to take the OG reading, and after already pitching the wort realized I hadn't, so it's my own fault, if I had remembered this, I would have taken the reading "before" pitching the yeast.

Do you think this is gonna mess up the beer?

Here is the recipe in the format you requested:

Boil Length: 60 min.
Boil Size: 15L
Plain Top Off Water: topped off to 23L in the fermenter after adding the finished wort to it
Collected Batch Size: unsure exactly
Estimated OG: according to beersmith 1.042
Actual OG: 1.031 until I added the corn sugar, which bumped it up to 1.040

30 minute "steeping" at 151 F:

2 lbs. American 2-row
3 lbs.Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L

Boil:

Add 3 lbs. Light DME @ 60 min.

Hops:



0.5 oz. Columbus 14% pellets @ 60 min.
0.5 oz. Columbus 14% pellets @ 25 min.

1 oz. Chinook 10% pellets @ 15 min.

Safale 05 yeast
 

brtisbuck

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With a base malt such as 2-row your steep or mash should be about 1.5l of water per lb of grain. I usually hold at 154 for about 45 min then rinse with my boil water at a temp of 170. This will give the proper ph to convert the starches and extract them most efficiently. Also when you top up, it is nearly impossible to mix it completely so that often times skews readings (but don't worry the yeasties do a fine job finishing the mixing.) Worst case is the added sugar dries up the beer a bit, but it will boost the alc.

Beersmith gives you the guidlines for each style. You may not have exactly what you intended, but you still might like it in the end - it may be a great beer. I would let it do its thing and time will tell. Good luck and cheers.
 
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NScooknet

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With a base malt such as 2-row your steep or mash should be about 1.5l of water per lb of grain. I usually hold at 154 for about 45 min then rinse with my boil water at a temp of 170. This will give the proper ph to convert the starches and extract them most efficiently. Also when you top up, it is nearly impossible to mix it completely so that often times skews readings (but don't worry the yeasties do a fine job finishing the mixing.) Worst case is the added sugar dries up the beer a bit, but it will boost the alc.

Beersmith gives you the guidlines for each style. You may not have exactly what you intended, but you still might like it in the end - it may be a great beer. I would let it do its thing and time will tell. Good luck and cheers.
That's great advice, thanks for that!

I know it's hard to do things without all the "proper" equipment, but sometimes, you just have to make do with what you've got.

We'll wait and see how it turns out I guess!

Chris :)
 

bobbrews

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3 lbs. of crystal would be an extradinary amount of crystal to us for any IPA recipe under 10 gallons. That's a big reason why you fudged up the recipe. So is this a 3 gallon batch or 6.1 gallons? Because 23 Liters is 6.1 gallons. Depending on the batch size, and with the rest of those ingredients, you'd only need like 6 ounces to 1 lb. of crystal.

The following should yield 1.039 OG / 1.010 FG with a 4 gallon boil / 6.1 gallon batch w/top off. That's 3.9% abv.

3 lbs. Light DME
3 lbs. Crystal 20
2 lbs. American 2-row

Topping off with plain water also dilutes the beer significantly and isn't recommended if you want the best beer you can possibly make. Some people adjust for the differences and do it anyway, but it almost always makes an inferior beer vs. doing a full wort boil. You need that vigorous boil with the malt and hops to make a beer truly shine, especially a hop forward beer.
 

Yooper

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I entered partial mash into beersmith as the type, and as a 3 gallon batch.

I actually am making a 23L batch, but have to brew in the small 15L pot and then top up with water in the fermenter.
Then make it a 6 gallon batch (23 liters) so it doesn't screw you up, and use 3 gallons as the boil volume. If you're making a 23 l batch, use THAT as your batch size.

The reason you got such a super low OG is because you didn't have enough malt for a 6 gallon batch. Also, make sure you measure! Mark your fermenter or pot or something so that you have the correct amount of water added. If you add too much water, you'll dilute the beer. so this is very important!

Three pounds of crystal is about 2 pounds too much for a 6 gallon batch. I don't think there is any fix to that. Next time, make sure you never use more crystal than about 5-7% for most beers, and for some (like American amber) you can go up to 15%, but usually one pound of crystal is adequate for a 5-6 gallon batch.

Your recipe is pretty messed up, but it will end up with beer anyway. It should be drinkable if not all that great.
 
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NScooknet

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Then make it a 6 gallon batch (23 liters) so it doesn't screw you up, and use 3 gallons as the boil volume. If you're making a 23 l batch, use THAT as your batch size.

The reason you got such a super low OG is because you didn't have enough malt for a 6 gallon batch. Also, make sure you measure! Mark your fermenter or pot or something so that you have the correct amount of water added. If you add too much water, you'll dilute the beer. so this is very important!

Three pounds of crystal is about 2 pounds too much for a 6 gallon batch. I don't think there is any fix to that. Next time, make sure you never use more crystal than about 5-7% for most beers, and for some (like American amber) you can go up to 15%, but usually one pound of crystal is adequate for a 5-6 gallon batch.

Your recipe is pretty messed up, but it will end up with beer anyway. It should be drinkable if not all that great.
Well that kinda sux, but I guess as long as I can still drink it it's ok...lol

Since I do not have a large pot, I'm stuck with using a small one, and then topping up the water in the fermenter later. I'm always sure to put exactly enough water to top it up to 23 liters anyhow.

The reason I have the 2 row and the crystal malt was because it was recommended to me by a beer supply retailer who advised me to add 1.2kg of each to a can of coopers (steeping method) and so I was left over with the remainder of 5lb of each, and wanted to make good use of it before spending more money on beer making supplies.

I figured if I could make decent beer with the grains "and" the coopers can, leaving out that Coopers can and adding more grains might be a good idea.
Oh well, live and learn.

Thanks for all the good info!

 
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NScooknet

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So what then do you think of the original recipe that was suggested to me by the guy who sold me the grains?

Keep in mind that I have only a 15L canning pot and used that to steep the grains in, and then added the can of Cooper's Real Ale after the boil was done to the wort, and then added to the fermenter and topped up to 23L.

Here it is below, tell me what you think it would turn out like:


- 1 can Cooper's Real Ale stirred in to the finished boil before adding it to the fermenter and topping the fermenter up with water to 23L total.

-Boil Length: 60 min.
- Boil Size: 15L canning pot
- Plain Top Off Water: topped off to 23L in the fermenter after adding the finished wort to it
- Collected Batch Size: whatever was in the canning pot once boil was finished!

- Estimated OG: dunno
- Actual OG: 1.042

-30 minute "steeping" at 151 F:

-2 lbs. American 2-row
-3 lbs.Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L

-Boil:

-Add 3 lbs. Light DME @ 60 min.

-Hops:

-1/2 oz columbus hops at 60 min

-1/2 oz columbus hops at 25 min

-1/2 oz columbus hops at 5 min

-Safale 05 yeast
 

brtisbuck

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I think the amount of crystal is way out of line and it will taste cloying sweet. With the IBU's in the 30's it is more of a pale ale rather than an ipa, but still too much crystal.
 
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NScooknet

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I think the amount of crystal is way out of line and it will taste cloying sweet. With the IBU's in the 30's it is more of a pale ale rather than an ipa, but still too much crystal.
OOps,

I screwed up!

I MEANT to say only 1/2lb of crystal ans 1/2lb of 2-row.

It was the too much crystal that I made in the initial recipe we were discussing and I wanted to ask what you thought about how the proportions and recipe that was "recommended" to me.

Here's the PROPER recipe I "meant" to post, please tell me what you think this would taste like:


- 1 can Cooper's Real Ale stirred in to the finished boil before adding it to the fermenter and topping the fermenter up with water to 23L total.

-Boil Length: 60 min.
- Boil Size: 15L canning pot
- Plain Top Off Water: topped off to 23L in the fermenter after adding the finished wort to it
- Collected Batch Size: whatever was in the canning pot once boil was finished!

- Estimated OG: dunno
- Actual OG: 1.042

-30 minute "steeping" at 151 F:

-1/2 lbs. American 2-row
-1/2 lbs.Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L

-Boil:

-Add 1.2kg. Light DME @ 60 min.

-Hops:

-1/2 oz columbus hops at 60 min

-1/2 oz columbus hops at 25 min

-1/2 oz columbus hops at 5 min

-Safale 05 yeast
 

brtisbuck

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I don't have brew software on this machine and I'm not very familiar with Cooper's no boil cans, but I did some research on it.

The real ale is about 56 IBUs on its own and the rest of the recipe by itself without the can is actually a pretty high ibu given the amount of grain. This might actually be a pretty bitter IPA. You may want to move your 25min addition to say 10 minutes and move your 5 min to 0 and aroma steep for 5 minute.

That will knock down some of the bitterness a touch and give you more hop flavor and aroma.

Once again, I haven't played with those cans much less mixing them into a boil.

Cheers and good luck.
 
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