Need input on basic bitter recipe

[Puddlethumper]

I have a recipe for a basic bitter that I want to try. It's a British book. The recipe calls for 130 grams of crystal malt with no reference to a Lovibond rating. Any suggestions on which crystal malt they may be calling for?

Maris Otter - 4000 gms
Crystal Malt - 130 gms
Black Malt - 11 gms

EK Goldings - 30 gms (75 min)
EK Goldings - 20 gms (10 min)

Nottingham or S-04 yeast


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[BigEd]

Go with "medium" crystal ~55L.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Sounds good. Thanks.


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[DavidJP]

I actually think it might be more in the 70-75L range.

Bairds British crystal malts available locally here in my local LHBS
50-60L
70-80L
135-165L
http://morebeer.com/products/british-crystal-malt-7080l.html

If you look at Bairds website they list many different crystal malts but mention the following
"Traditionally in the UK, Crystal malt of colour 70 -80 °ASBC has been used at about 5% of the grist to give the characteristic colour and flavour of UK Bitters and Pale Ales" Thats the same as Lovibond.
http://www.bairds-malt.co.uk/Roasted.html


Fawcett lists their crystal malts in IOB ranges which I think are a little lower than EBC which are double Lovibonds so Fawcetts standard crystal at 120-140 IOB would be around 70L
http://www.fawcett-maltsters.co.uk/range.htm

Crisp lists their light crystal at 60-70L
http://www.crispmalt.co/files/Coloured Malt.pdf

I guess it wouldn't make too much difference but I'd use a british crystal a little darker than 50L. I assume you're going from the Graham Wheeler book.You could also ask the question on this UK site they do lots of beers from that book
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/index.php

 

[Puddlethumper]

I actually think it might be more in the 70-75L range.

I guess it wouldn't make too much difference but I'd use a british crystal a little darker than 50L. I assume you're going from the Graham Wheeler book.You could also ask the question on this UK site they do lots of beers from that book
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/index.php

Thanks for the links. Really helpful input. The book I have is a compilation called "The Homebrew Handbook" and cites a number of contributors. I don't think it's the one you mentioned.

I'll follow your advice and up the grain bill to some crystal 80 or whatever the lhbs has in that range. BTW, I'm second-guessing that 1/2 oz of black malt in the recipe. Do you think that is enough to really add anything to this beer?



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[dcbw]

If its Wheeler he says use "medium crystal" which means 60L. But if not Wheeler just use 60L anyway. If they wanted something lighter or darker they would have said.

 

[dcbw]

To clarify, in Wheeler in the Crystal Malt section, he says "The recipes usually use standard crystal malt." The color range he lists for standard crystal is 130 - 170 EBC, which translates to 50L - 60L in Lovibond. 150 EBC = 57L if you want to split the difference, thus the recommendation for 60L.

 

[DavidJP]

To clarify, in Wheeler in the Crystal Malt section, he says "The recipes usually use standard crystal malt." The color range he lists for standard crystal is 130 - 170 EBC, which translates to 50L - 60L in Lovibond. 150 EBC = 57L if you want to split the difference, thus the recommendation for 60L.

Interesting, which Wheeler book is that.
I've got
"Brew Your own real ale at home" 1993 edition
"Home brewing, the Camra guide" 1993 edition
"Brew Classic European beers at home" 1995 edition

The first two are Camra books that I purchased in the Uk, neither of which I can find any definition of which colour crystal to use beyond a general description of crystal malt (100-300EBC)
After your previous post I looked in my last book which is a US edition and I usually don't look at that much and that again doesn't have any colour descriptions in the actual recipes but does include in the general malt section a description of crystal malt that starts by saying they are 100-300EBC. However the last sentence in the crystal malt paragraph says " Crystal malt is available in a whole range of colours, but about 150EBC is the usual standard" That would be about 75L.


I wonder if the US editions of the books have a more specific definition. I seem to remember when I brewed in the UK although a very long time ago now we just bought crystal malt and I can't remember any specific colour definition. I also wonder if more recent editions have added more specific definitions, the Brew your own real ale book i have is a 1993 edition.

Not sure it really matters too much but I'd use a British crystal in the 60-75L area if you can. The British crystals I can source from my local LHBS actually give a range of values so you can only buy either 50-60L or 70-80L, I tend to go for the 70-80. Was the 60L recommendation in the Brew your own real ale at home book, I'd guess that would probably be the most available over here. Always thought it strange there was no actual definition in the actual recipes.

 

[DavidJP]

Thanks for the links. Really helpful input. The book I have is a compilation called "The Homebrew Handbook" and cites a number of contributors. I don't think it's the one you mentioned.

I'll follow your advice and up the grain bill to some crystal 80 or whatever the lhbs has in that range. BTW, I'm second-guessing that 1/2 oz of black malt in the recipe. Do you think that is enough to really add anything to this beer?



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I haven't heard of that book, the reason I thought it might be a Wheeler book is that a lot of his recipes look very like that.
Often he includes a little bit of black malt for mostly colour and to replace caramel colouring that they add commercially. So I'm guessing you could probably leave it out without too much effect but the colour would change.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I appreciate the great information you guys are sharing. This book is strictly a UK edition from all the copyright info etc. in the fronticepiece. And from what you are saying the recipes are also typically British. It makes them all the more interesting to me for brewing purposes.

Digging a little deeper I have learned that the brewer who contributed this recipe was Paul Saunders, aka Saracen. From the text I would gather he is rather well regarded in the BrewUK forum.


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[QuercusMax]

I really like some dark crystal in my bitters - I think it's either Simpsons or Fawcett 145-155L. 2% gives a nice color, and just a hint of burnt sugar, 5% gives a great figgy molasses flavor.

 

[DavidJP]

To clarify, in Wheeler in the Crystal Malt section, he says "The recipes usually use standard crystal malt." The color range he lists for standard crystal is 130 - 170 EBC, which translates to 50L - 60L in Lovibond. 150 EBC = 57L if you want to split the difference, thus the recommendation for 60L.

Is that right I thought converting EBC to Lovibond was basically divide by 2 or 1.97 according to this article
http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/04/29/beer-color-understanding-srm-lovibond-and-ebc/

So 130-170 EBC would be 65L-85L and 150EBC would be 75L and not 60L

 

[Puddlethumper]

So how much flavor difference is there between British Crystal malts and the Crystal malts we typically use?

The reason I am asking is because my lhbs doesn't stock any British crystal malts. The British crystal malts are available on-line but with shipping costs it pushes the price of the brew up quite a bit.

The lhbs does carry Crisp amber malt along with British brown malt. I've seen other bitters recipes that called for amber malt. I was thinking that might make an acceptable substitution but it does deviate from the recipe I'm trying to follow. Since I haven't worked with these malts before I'm hesitant to make substitutions without some idea of what they'll do to the beer.

Any input on this would be appreciated.

 

[QuercusMax]

To me, there's at least as much flavor difference to be between German-type crystal (Caramunich/Caravienne) and American crystal as there is between American and British crystal. How exactly to *describe* those differences is difficult for me, but there definitely is a difference.

Putting American crystal into a bitter isn't *bad*, and I've made several quite tasty ones using american crystal. It's just different.

 

[Puddlethumper]

To me, there's at least as much flavor difference to be between German-type crystal (Caramunich/Caravienne) and American crystal as there is between American and British crystal. How exactly to *describe* those differences is difficult for me, but there definitely is a difference.

Putting American crystal into a bitter isn't *bad*, and I've made several quite tasty ones using american crystal. It's just different.

If the two crystal malts are that similar it sounds as though the idea of subbing in some amber malt would probably be a bad move. Just chewing a few kernels of the grain reveals a huge flavor difference between amber 35/45L and regular crystal 40.

 

[QuercusMax]

If you were making a brown porter or brown ale, the amber malt would probably make sense, but I don't think it belongs in a bitter. American Crystal will do just fine.

 

[Puddlethumper]

If you were making a brown porter or brown ale, the amber malt would probably make sense, but I don't think it belongs in a bitter. American Crystal will do just fine.

Decided to bite the bullet and order the genuine article mail-order. Thanks for your views. Once I've made this recipe to the "t" once I may try it with some American crystal just to learn something.

Cheers!