Need help with my hoppy beers

[MarkF150]

I need some help with my hoppy beers. I brew 5 gallon AG batches. I have my process down pretty good, pitch enough healthy yeast, control fermentation temp, and package into a CO2 flushed keg, but all of my hoppy beers are a muddled mess. It doesn't matter if I use a single hop or a combo of hops, hop burst or steep and whirlpool, dry hop, it doesn't matter, I don't get the fresh hop flavor and aroma you get from good commercial examples. I have been prepping all my brewing water the day before and treating it with campden to remove the chlorine and on brew day I add salts. My base water looks like this:

Na - 34
Ca - 8
Mg - 2
CaCO3 - 28
SO4 - 18
Cl - 47

The last IPA I brewed adding Gypsum and Epsom Salt was:

Na - 30
Ca - 172
Mg - 8
SO4 - 445
Cl - 42
5ml Lactic Acid to adjust mash PH, was shooting for 5.2, actual mash PH was 5.3

I understand the SO4 is a little high, but I have been playing around with it the past few batches seeing if it made a difference.

What am I doing wrong, or what do I need to do to get the crisp, fresh hop flavor and aroma I desire in my hoppy beers?

 

[MarkF150]

Here is the recipe of the last IPA

This recipe is based off the Head Hunter recipe in Mitch Steele's book

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.00 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 8.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 89.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 87.9 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
11.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 1 -
1.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
6 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 50.0 %
3 lbs 2.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 4 25.0 %
12.0 oz Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 5 6.0 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6 6.0 %
12.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 7 6.0 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 8 2.0 %
0.50 oz Centennial [3.50 %] - Mash 60.0 min Hop 9 1.0 IBUs
10.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 10 5.0 %
0.25 oz HopShot [61.10 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 11 49.5 IBUs
13.80 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil 90.0 mins Water Agent 12 -
1.30 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Boil 90.0 mins) Water Agent 13 -
0.50 oz Centennial [3.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 14 4.9 IBUs
0.20 oz Citra [12.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 15 7.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [3.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 16 4.1 IBUs
0.20 oz Citra [12.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 17 5.8 IBUs
1.25 oz Centennial [3.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 3 Hop 18 5.1 IBUs
0.70 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 19 10.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [5.30 %] - Steep/Whi Hop 20 1.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast 21 -

1.00 oz Citra Dry Hop 7 days
1.00 oz Simcoe Dry Hop 7 days
1.00 oz Centennial Dry Hop 7 days


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 16.00 qt of water at 162.2 F 151.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 4.93 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
------
CO2 Hop Extract used was 61.1% AA. 5ml for 50 IBU's

Subbed C10 for CaraHell

Fermented at 66*

 

[sptaylor70]

Have you tried using spring water? Or starting with distilled and treating from there?

 

[hafmpty]

Get on Twitter and look up Nathan Smith with the brewing network. Ask him. I bet he will have some good info for you. He's a great IPA brewer. Look him up and keep us posted.

On a semi-related note, you might want to decrease the amount of time you are dry hopping. Check out Brad Smith's recent podcasts and articles on dry hopping where the current research supports 2-3 days at 68ish is recommended.

Also I didn't see you mention this, but don't dry hop in the primary. Transfer to your CO2 flushed keg and dry hop in that. Yeast have a tendency to absorb the hop character you are shooting for.

With your water modification how sure are you that your water supply's ion concentrations aren't changing? You might try brewing a batch with spring water as suggested above to see what happens. Or you could just use your water as is and see what you get at the end. Maybe do a few side by side batches if you have the capability. Do 2 or 3 different 1-2 gallon batches. Use spring water, unmodified city water, and modified city water.

I feel for you though. You're doing so much right and it's frustrating with all you're doing to not have a great beer at the end.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Falcon3]

Another observation- you've got almost 2 LBS of Crystal/Dextrine style malt (Plus using MO for a significant portion of your base malt). That will tend to throw off the bitter, hoppiness most IPA's have. Might want to dial that down and dry the beer out with mostly base malts and less crystal.

 

[bigdongsr94]

I am in the same boat. I use RO water and might suggest that, but I do not like the idea of "spring" water as you don't know what that means and is sometimes difficult to find out. There are plenty of hoppy beers with crystal and sweetness to back it up so you can try a dried out IPA but like I said I am in the same boat. Hope you find an answer for me. Do you have the bitterness and no aroma or just not much of anything?

 

[Calichusetts]

Whats with the 45 and 30 minute additions? Just add something as a FWH along with your hopshot and move those into the 20-0 range.

I'm also not understanding your grainbill. Why the flaked wheat if you use carapils. Maybe try one or the other. Not that there is anything wrong with the grain bill but if your sayings its muddled...strip it down and see what happens.

Finally, I steep the same amount of hops as you do...except I am doing 1 gallon. Mine are hop bombs to the max. Maybe double the steep amounts.

How long is fermentation?

My chemistry is pretty close to yours...I use poland springs as my base water.

 

[mblanks2]

I would suggest simplifying your grain bill to start with. Anything over 5% crystal/cara malts is going leave allot of residual sweetness that can over power the bitterness you're trying to achieve.
Also, is there a reason for the Epsom salt? Most people generally only use that to raise mash ph and since you're using lactic to lower the ph I question the need. That would be where the increase in S04 is coming from and likely what's covering your bitterness.
Do a bittering charge with your Hop SHot and save the rest of your hops for the last 10 minutes to steep.
My 2 cents!

On edit. I also noticed that you have Cara-pils and flaked wheat. Drop the Car-Pils and use only the flaked wheat. I will give excellent head retention and lacing.