Need Electric Motor Wiring Help

[akthor]

So we got a new motor to motorize my grain mill, the old motor I got off of Ebay wasn't strong enough. The new motor came with no power cord so it needs to be wired up. Since it can go forward and reverse I figure I would use the control box and wiring from the old motor. But I have no idea what wires go to what?

So coming out of the control box are 4 wires: white, black, green, and red.

Coming out of the motor: black, yellow, a black wire that has writing on it, and two sets of 3 wires whose ends are crimped together which I assume means they belong together: black, white, orange and black, red, blue

I've attached some pictures that hopefully will help.

So what do I do? Thanks for any help.

 

[akthor]

I have looked at all sorts of wiring diagrams and just can't see how it goes?

 

[akthor]

Here is a better pic of the diagram on the motor I just don't understand:

What wire is P1 or P2 whats line 1 and line 2 what does insulate mean?

And how do these correspond to the four wires coming out of the box?

Seems like I got too many wires?

I need to wire it according to the low voltage side.

Help?

 

[reynolds5520]

Looks like that motor should work fine for you. I will help you figure it out but it may take some back and forth discussion.

Let's start with the motor and get it to turn, then move on to that control box.

Coming out of the motor: black, yellow, a black wire that has writing on it, and two sets of 3 wires whose ends are crimped together which I assume means they belong together: black, white, orange and black, red, blue

In those wiring diagrams on the motor where it shows a group of various colors going to "insulate", that means you connect that group together with an insulated connector. In other words, the ones you describe as crimped together.

As you work on this you should label each wire as it is identified and before you cut it from a group - it will save trouble identifying it later.


It sounds like the wiring is now configured for the "high voltage" input (based on the colors that are grouped together.)

In the Black/Red/Blue group, that Black is T1 - label it.

In the Orange/White/Black group, that Black is the one they identify as Black on the diagram - label it as Black so it doesn't get confused with another black.


That leaves us with two blacks (one with writing) and a yellow.

The Yellow is obviously Yellow on the diagram.

Now the harder part, the two blacks. One is P1 and the other is P2.

Can you tell anything from the writing on the one wire?

Are there any signs that one was capped off? P2 isn't used in the high voltage configuration.

Are you looking at these inside the cable box on the side of the motor? Any labels in there? Can you provide a picture in the box?

Any numbers on the wires? The factory diagram I downloaded has numbers on the internal connections.

Edit:
To answer another of your specific questions - Line 1 and Line 2 on the diagram are the incoming power, either from a power cord or the control box.


Edit 2:
Do you have a Volt/Ohm meter for testing?

 

[reynolds5520]

Is that control box a separate box? Or is it mounted on the side of the motor?

The White/Black/Red/Green cable is likely the 220V 4-wire power in for the control.

 

[akthor]

Separate box from my old motor. I think I got it figured out but the Pats are on so I will post here tomorrow what I came up with and better details on the wiring and questions with more pics if I need help.

If this motor is a 1/2 HP my old one must have been 1/16th HP

 

[reynolds5520]

I will watch for your update.

 

[akthor]

Thank you again for the help and your time.

 

[akthor]

Ok so if I looked really close there was actual printing on the wires coming from the motor for P1, T1, P2 which helped clear up the confusion and insulate just means put them together which also cleared up a lot (electrical noob here) So if I bypass the switch box and connect (coming from power cord) white (Line 1) to P1 and black (Line 2) to black, yellow, white from the motor and plug it in the motor works.

But if I try connecting just the white and black from the switch box I get nothing and I have the red and green leads from the switch box left over and no idea where they would go. The switch box has a power light and with just the white and black hooked up the power light on the box does light up when you switch on the power switch but the motor doesn't come on. So obviously the red and green wires gotta go to something from the motor but which ones?

 

[SudsGuy]

Just to be clear - you have white, black, red and green out of the motor controller and the motor controller will power on? Your hang up is how to connect those four wires that are coming out of the control box?

The green should just be ground - it should go to a grounding lug on the motor if available. White should be neutral, black should be hot and the red should be for 220V operation (which it sounds like you don't need). Do you have a voltmeter? If so can you (carefully) use it to see what the potential (voltage) is between black-white and red-white when the control is switched on?

 

[akthor]

Hmm the motor that was connected to the box wasn't 220v and all four wires were hooked up to the back of it.

the power cord comes into the box, black, white and green. The green wire goes to a mounting screw and ends there like a ground the black and white cords connect to the switches on the back of the control panel and then the 4 wires black, red, white and green come out of the box to the motor. Would pics of that help?

 

[SudsGuy]

Ok. I'm with you. The red must be used to swap polarity to the motor (via the rotation selector switch, I didn't look close enough the first time through). As long as you have a potential going to the motor though I would think it'd spin...

Can you post a picture of the backside of the control box panel?

 

[akthor]

the power cord going into the box is black, white and green. the green goes into the box and onto a mounting screw on the box, black and white go into stuff on the control board. Out of the box comes black white red and green and all four were connected to the previous motor I guess I should have paid more attention to where. Would more pics help?

 

[mattd2]

Just to be clear - you have white, black, red and green out of the motor controller and the motor controller will power on? Your hang up is how to connect those four wires that are coming out of the control box?

The green should just be ground - it should go to a grounding lug on the motor if available. White should be neutral, black should be hot and the red should be for 220V operation (which it sounds like you don't need). Do you have a voltmeter? If so can you (carefully) use it to see what the potential (voltage) is between black-white and red-white when the control is switched on?

Just pick up on the voltage point. It has already been dicussed that the motor is wired up for "high voltage" and not "low voltage". From that would it not be expected that it is wired for 220V not 110V?

So would the it not be need to connect green - ground, white - insulated, red/black - P1/yellow. To switch the rotation should you not switch the polarity of the connections to P1/yellow, i.e. the control box needs to be rewired so replacing the white that goes to the control box switch with the red (cap/insulate the now disused white).
This is all based on the assumption the "high volatge" = 220v, reynolds care to comment?

 

[mattd2]

the power cord going into the box is black, white and green. the green goes into the box and onto a mounting screw on the box, black and white go into stuff on the control board. Out of the box comes black white red and green and all four were connected to the previous motor I guess I should have paid more attention to where. Would more pics help?

Is the plug for the control box that goes to the wall a 220V plug or a standard 110v plug?
If it is a 110v plug and the new motor is 220v then I would, at a guess, have to say you may not be able to reuse the contol box. At the very least you will need to confirm all the switch, lights, etc. are rated for 220v.

 

[akthor]

hopefully these help.

 

[mattd2]

OK, sorry I might be confused but it sound like you did get it to work on 110v.

From reading the motor plate again it sounds like you want is:
Power into the control box, black passes through the control swtich for off/on control. Green goes to grounding lug.
Black (from switch), white and green exit the control box -> green to motor ground, black to yellow, white to P1.
Then the black and red wire from the motor need to go back to the control box to the rotation switch and wired so the will switch polarity depending on the switch direction (i.e. remove them from the crimped insulated connection and add another red/black wire so the wire basically travels to the control box switch and then back to the to the crimped insulated connector.)
I think we need a wiring diagram done to explain this but I don't have the ability to do one at the mo sorry.

Of corse this is just my take please can someone confirm this?

 

[akthor]

the motor can run at either voltage 110 or 220 you wire it according to the low or high voltage diagram on the motor. here's the motor:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/marathon-electric-reg-1-2hp-farm-duty-shop-motor-1-725-rpm-3241126

 

[mattd2]

Here is a better pic of the diagram on the motor I just don't understand:

What wire is P1 or P2 whats line 1 and line 2 what does insulate mean?

And how do these correspond to the four wires coming out of the box?

Seems like I got too many wires?

I need to wire it according to the low voltage side.

Help?

Can you also take a picture of the info plate to the left of the wiring information?
With regards to the control box I am thinking that while you may be able to reuse it, I would think you would need to start from scratch. Firstly the ground is only connected to the case, i.e. the green in the output cable is not ground! That is a huge concern.
it also seems like there is a capacitor for the old motor housed in this box (unless it is something else?)

 

[SudsGuy]

Without seeing a diagram it's hard, but I'll take another stab at it. The issue is that there are two inputs (P1, P2) to the motor, but three wires (white, red, black) coming out of the control box (not counting grounds). Is that correct akthor?

In my pee little brain you should have:
-Green ground throughout
-White through box and to the motor (may make a few stops in the control box including a stop at the power light)
-Black into the power switch, output from the power switch into the rotation selection switch as well as the power light
-Out of the rotation switch should be two wires (I'm thinking black and red) that control motor rotation

It's hard to tell your colors in your picture...Perhaps red and black should be tied together in the motor? Any feedback from anyone on that thought?

That still doesn't explain why you can't get any rotation from solely white and black (should have a voltage drop between them). If you had a voltmeter to check that it would help alot.

 

[mattd2]

the motor can run at either voltage 110 or 220 you wire it according to the low or high voltage diagram on the motor. here's the motor:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/marathon-electric-reg-1-2hp-farm-duty-shop-motor-1-725-rpm-3241126

Ok thats what I thought.
Basically it is currently wired up for high voltage right, but you are connecting it to low voltage (black - white = 115v).
So you have a choice to make - find a 220v supply or rewire the motor (this should not be much effort now that you have ID'd the wires).

 

[SudsGuy]

Do you think the taped up box is the capacitor? It looks like a transformer to me that is powering the light, but I'm not sure. It's hard to tell with it all taped up...

The best move may be a new control box though to ensure proper code adherence as well as functionality.

 

[mattd2]

Without seeing a diagram it's hard, but I'll take another stab at it. The issue is that there are two inputs (P1, P2) to the motor, but three wires (white, red, black) coming out of the control box (not counting grounds). Is that correct akthor?

In my pee little brain you should have:
-Green ground throughout-White through box and to the motor (may make a few stops in the control box including a stop at the power light)
-Black into the power switch, output from the power switch into the rotation selection switch as well as the power light
-Out of the rotation switch should be two wires (I'm thinking black and red) that control motor rotation

It's hard to tell your colors in your picture...Perhaps red and black should be tied together in the motor? Any feedback from anyone on that thought?

That still doesn't explain why you can't get any rotation from solely white and black (should have a voltage drop between them). If you had a voltmeter to check that it would help alot.

Thats is a problem, the green on the output is not ground, the input ground goes to the box and stops there.

 

[mattd2]

Do you think the taped up box is the capacitor? It looks like a transformer to me that is powering the light, but I'm not sure. It's hard to tell with it all taped up...

The best move may be a new control box though to ensure proper code adherence as well as functionality.

You could be right too.

I think you are right with going for a new control box. You may/should be able to reuse the box & switches. But I would clear out all the current wiring and start from scratch.

 

[akthor]

Here's a pic of the plate:

 

[mattd2]

OK so what we have at the moment is:
Motor is wired for 220V
Motor runs when hooked up to a 110v source (black - white)
Running like this has a couple of problems, 1) it will not give you the full power 2) it could potentially damage the motor if it is drawing an increase current/not cooling as it would if wired correctly.

first step is to supply the motor with the correct voltage, options are:
1) get a 220v plug and use a 220V wall socket - line1/line2 = black/red
2) rewire the motor as per the low voltage diagram - line1/line2 = black/white (ask any questions you need to get this done)

Next is set up the control box:
1) remove all wiring from the box
2) **if motor set up for 115v ensure switches are rated for at least 115v 8.8amp
**if motor set up for 230v ensure switches are rated for at least 230v 4.4amp

Just thinking about it, if you can decide now if you are going 115/230v it would reduce confusion during the next bit.

 

[reynolds5520]

Sorry to leave you hanging, I was working in the field today.


Good news on finding the labels on the motor wires!


Thanks too for the better pics of the controller. I will study it a bit and post again shortly. I am confident we can get this working.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, this is what I came up with, wiring the motor for 110VAC, and using an SPST for On/Off control and a DPDT for Forward/Reverse control.

To help with the Forward/Reverse function:

- In the Reverse setting, the Red lead is connected to the P2 and Orange leads, while the Black lead is connected to the White and Yellow leads. This is the way the motor spins with the default wiring as shown on the motor label.

- In the Forward setting, the Red lead is connected to the White and Yellow leads, while the Black lead is connected to the P2 and Orange leads. This would correspond to the "To Reverse" note on the motor label.

If you can identify the two switches on that control box as being one of each, SPST and DPDT, you should be able to cobble the wiring to match the above...

hth

Cheers!

 

[mattd2]

fwiw, this is what I came up with, wiring the motor for 110VAC, and using an SPST for On/Off control and a DPDT for Forward/Reverse control.

Day tripper to the rescue!
Only comment I have is to connect the ground to the control box also if it is metal.

 

[reynolds5520]

Yup, that will do it.

The only thing not in that drawing is the indicator light. If you leave it connected the way it is now and just change the rest to match the drawing, everything should work.

 

[akthor]

Thanks man I have been busy at work but will try this as soon as I can and report back.

 

[akthor]

It works! Your diagram helped me figure out the wiring in the box since all the colors were different it would have been impossible without that diagram. Even then tho that block box, capacitor or whatever it is was making it not work once I removed it everything works as it should. Even if I connected it according to the diagram just like I did the light. I have read some motors need a starting capacitor or something?? Either mine doesn't or I blew that little black box thingy in my earlier attempts to wire it. I will shoot some pics when everything is installed off to work now tho. Thanks again guys and especially Day Tripper for the diagram you guys are life savers! Plus now I can return the new switches and box I bought at Home Depot

 

[day_trippr]

Excellent! Glad to have helped!

Cheers!

 

[mattd2]

...I have read some motors need a starting capacitor or something?? Either mine doesn't or I blew that little black box thingy in my earlier attempts to wire it...

Glad to hear you got it working! I am guesing that the motor capacitor is under that lump/cover on the side of the motor.
All good that you got it going