Need Critique of strong ale recipe

[82cabby]

So I am trying a new recipe and would appreciate any feedback folks would like to provide. I am looking for a strong ale with a definite hop presence but not overwhelming, and a nice malty fullness. I will be using Rouge Pacman yeast that I harvested from a batch of dead guy ale that I made recently.

Here are the brewer's friend calculator results based on a 3 gallon, 60 minute boil. I am debating adding the amber malt late in the boil. Please let me know what you think:




Dave's Draught - Frog Spit

Method: Partial Mash

Grains (steeped for 20 minutes @160 degrees)
1 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 60L
1 lb American - Pale 2-Row

Extract

6.6 lb Liquid Malt Extract - Light
3.3 lb Liquid Malt Extract - Amber

Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
1 oz Chinook Pellet 13 Boil 60 min 23.38
1 oz Chinook Pellet 13 Aroma 5 min 4.66
1 oz Chinook Pellet 13 Dry Hop 7-10 days


Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.133 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

Original Gravity: 1.080
Final Gravity: 1.020
ABV (standard): 7.87%
IBU (tinseth): 28.04
SRM (morey): 13.29

 

[hellawaits77]

Huge fan of Strong Ale's. So much you can tinker with based on preference. I think your recipe looks good, but I will give a few suggestions based on what you posted up top. Frog Spit, cool name!

I'd add MOST of the malt late in the boil, both light and amber. With LME, you run the risk of sweet off-flavors if you have too much malt at the beginning of the boil. I added all my LME to my DIPA, and had some off flavors. It turned out excellent and the off flavors were certainly not bad, but it did take away from some of the hoppiness. I might do something like this:

60 min - 2 lbs light
30 min - 1.3 lbs light
15 min - 3.3 lbs amber
5 min - 3 lbs light

The exact formula isn't THAT important, but I do think it's wise in any extract brew to add the majority of the extract in the last 15 minutes of the boil. Also, with lot's of malt boiling throughout, you run the risk of a much darker than expected beer. I don't think that's a huge negative, and extract beers will always be darker than all-mash beers, it's nice to have a beer that's not darker than expected.

You said you wanted a definite hop presence, and I'm not sure that 28 IBU will give you that. I like Chinook hops, but maybe you add a little more, or a little of another hop, depending on your tastes.

But overall, I think the recipe looks good, and I think it will taste excellent.

 

[82cabby]

Thanks for the feedback! I will use your schedule of malt addition.

I don't know the difference between the 'Tinseth' and the 'Rager' methods of calculating IBU. With the Tinseth method, the brewer's friend calculator gave an estimate of 28.04, using the Rager method, the estimate was 49.25. Both methods showed a target range of 25 - 40 for an American Ale. I figured I was splitting the difference. I could add more at the dry hop stage and try to keep it from going too bitter.

Thanks again!

 

[hellawaits77]

Ok, I see. At that level, you should have some decent hop presence. And yes, you can always add more to the dry hop if you're not noticing much from the aroma.

 

[Calder]

I'd 'steep' the grains in 148 - 150 F water. Use about 2.5 quarts (5 pints), and then rinse the grains with some of the other water at 170 F. This will help you get sugars from the 2-row, and get more out of the crystal, while making them both more fermentable. Basically it is mashing rather than steeping; with steeping in a large volume of water you will get little from the 2-row.

Replace a pound of the extract with a pound of plain table sugar. This will help you get a lower FG. I think 1.020 is just way too high. Extract beers tend to end higher than all-grain and this will help offset that.

Add most of the extract at 10 or 15 minutes to go. Either turn off, dissolve, and heat back up, or keep the heat on and stir like crazy while adding it. You want to prevent burning on the bottom of the pot. If you get a little, it will be OK, especially in a strong beer like that. You want to either add the LME in time to have the wort boiling before you start adding finishing hops, or add it at flame out and use it to help cool the wort. You don't want to interfere with the boil once you start adding the finishing hops. I usually add mine at 15 minutes to go, because I like to hold the temp at strike-out around 170 for a hop stand in many beers.

I generally use Rager for my beers. Seems to work OK for me. Many seem to prefer Tinseth. I don't think either of them are right, and it becomes more of an art.

I think I add more Chinook late in the boil. Maybe some at 15 minutes and some at flame out. That's just me; I like it hoppy.

 

[82cabby]

Thanks for the great advice! I am slowly learning the chemistry of brewing. Emphasis on SLOWLY. I have my yeast in a starter right now and they are kicking into gear. Tomorrow is brew day.
How does this sound:

Steep grains for 20 minutes in 2.5 quarts at 150 F, rinse with 170 F water. Add water to bring to 3 gallons. Bring to boil.

60 min - 3.3 lbs light, 1 lb corn sugar, 1 oz Chinook Hops

15 min - 3.3 lbs amber, 2.3 lbs light - return to boil

5 min - 1 oz chinook hops

flame out - 1 oz chinook

Add water to 5 gallons

Dry hop 1 oz chinook


I ran it through the Brewer's Friend calculator like this and it didn't change too much from the original. FG dropped to 1.019, alcohol dropped to 7.6 and IBUs bumped up a little bit. I am hoping the pacman yeast will take it a little farther and get the FG down. I do have trouble breaking much below 1.020 on a lot of my brews though...

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Calder]

I ran it through the Brewer's Friend calculator like this and it didn't change too much from the original. FG dropped to 1.019, alcohol dropped to 7.6 and IBUs bumped up a little bit. I am hoping the pacman yeast will take it a little farther and get the FG down. I do have trouble breaking much below 1.020 on a lot of my brews though...

I don't place much trust in calculator FGs. They are basically set to give you 25% of the OG. They don't take into account wort fermentability or simple sugars, and often don't have the right attenuation listed for the yeast.

Mashing at 150 will make it more fermentable and help bring your FG down a point or 2. Replacing 10% of your extract with sugar should bring the FG down 2 or 3 points. Using PacMan should also help.

Good luck.