Need another german lager for Oktoberfest

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mlyday

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We are going to have an oktoberfest party this year and I brewed an oktoberfest the end of march that is lagering right now. I also have 5 gallons of a munich madness bock... well maybe 4 gallons now, it turned out good. I want one more keg of a german lager, something lighter.

Well last night at dinner I had a couple if a local breweries (tri city brewing, bay city, mi) Hell's Half Mile. Its a Munich Helles style and it was fantastic. This is what I want for my thrird beer. I looked for a clone, but as I expected, I didnt think Id find one for such a local beer.

So I came up with one after looking at a few recipies online

8.5 lbs German Pilsner
.75 lbs Munich
.25 Melanoidin Malt

1.25 oz of either Halertuaer or tettnanger at 60min

White labs 830.

Boil for 90 minutes due to it having alot of pilsner malt.

Any lagerheads want to critique this, or have a clone of this beer.
 

944play

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Sounds great, except I have a strong preference for the Southern German Lager strain (838/2308) over 830. In my experience, it's faster, more flocculent, cleaner (diacetyl, especially), and leaves a more pleasing amount of body in a smallish beer like that.

OTOH, if you already have a big pitch of healthy 830 ready to go, just use that.
 
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mlyday

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Nope havent bought the yeast yet. I do have 4 mason jars with washed 838 from my bock, so maybe Ill use that. It did a nice job with the bock.
 
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mlyday

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I think I might up the grains a little more also to get the ABV in the 5 range.
 

markg388

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yeah that looks good, though helles should be a showcase of pilsner malt w/ an optional addition of carapils/foam. the recipe up there should produce a great helles either way. i usually shoot for 1.048 OG.
 

dstar26t

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Try sourcing Weyermann's Bohemian Pilsner Malt or even the Floor Malted version. Good stuff.
 

bh10

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Looks like a good munich helles, if thats what your going for and personally Id use the 838 also since you have it, little more malt to it or if you want to try something new use wlp833 (ayingers strain), its my house lager yeast and is my favorite, it really lets the malt shine.

Also if you have the time do a decoction mash.
 
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mlyday

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Well its going to be my first all grain so I think Ill skip the decoction mash. This is my favorite style so I can see myself doing it again, and trying the decoction then.

Im heading to the LHBS today, they have some liquid yeast but not alot. Ill see if they have the 833 there. If not they are pretty cool and will add whatever you want to the next order, you may have to wait a week or so, but youll get it, and no shipping costs.
 

greenbirds

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I made a Munich Helles a few months ago that incorporated many of the ideas in this thread.

88% Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner malt
10% Light Munich malt
2% Melanoidin malt

Single infusion mash at about 151 F. Bittered to about 18 IBU's with Mt. Hood.

10 gallon batch: 1/2 WLP838, 1/2 WLP833, fermented at 50 F with a 3 day room temp diacetyl rest prior to crashing. Although neither really had noticeable diacetyl, I like to do it anyway with my lagers just in case, and to hasten complete attenuation.

Both batches turned out GREAT. A little on the darker side from the munich/melanoidin (I think Beersmith calc'd at 4.8 SRM, range is 3-5), but the malt character was just superb. I would have people try this after drinking IPA's and stouts, and every time the response was "WOW." It really stood out, yet at the same time BMC drinkers claimed it was the best beer they ever had.

Both batches were very similar, with the WLP833 being slightly maltier. But the WLP838 just tasted more rounded and better put together overall.
 

dstar26t

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I ordered sacks of both the regular BoPils and the floor malted from my LHBS. I know Midwest has the regular BoPils.
 

greenbirds

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Can you clarify if you used the 830 or 833?
Sorry about that. The two batches were 838 (Southern German Lager) and 833 (German Bock), with the 833 (German Bock) tasting maltier but less well-rounded -- that opinion was echoed by several members of my local HB club. The 838 batch medaled twice in different competitions, but I did not enter the 833.
 

greenbirds

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I bought my Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner malt from www.fiftypoundsack.com

If you search around you will see some conflicting opinions on whether or not it is suitable for single infusion mashing. Weyermann has stated in the past that it is not undermodified, but also is not as well-modified as most other modern malts. Some people have reported haze problems, but I single-infused and had clear beer 1 week into the lagering process.

One small issue I did see was that the head on the beer was not so great... It would have decent retention, but as it collapsed it would form "patches" as opposed to a continuous, creamy layer. I have read that doing a protein rest with less-modified malts can break down large proteins into smaller ones that contribute to a more stable foam, so I tried step mashing it with a German Pils last week. I'll have to see how that plays out.
 

dstar26t

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I bought my Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner malt from www.fiftypoundsack.com

If you search around you will see some conflicting opinions on whether or not it is suitable for single infusion mashing. Weyermann has stated in the past that it is not undermodified, but also is not as well-modified as most other modern malts. Some people have reported haze problems, but I single-infused and had clear beer 1 week into the lagering process.

One small issue I did see was that the head on the beer was not so great... It would have decent retention, but as it collapsed it would form "patches" as opposed to a continuous, creamy layer. I have read that doing a protein rest with less-modified malts can break down large proteins into smaller ones that contribute to a more stable foam, so I tried step mashing it with a German Pils last week. I'll have to see how that plays out.
I would like to know how the Pils turns out. It's a good idea to get the Malt Analysis sheet if you're buying malt by the sack. There is a code (lot number) on their sacks which is a letter then 2 numbers and another letter, e.g. M05A. E-mail Weyermann the code and they will be happy to sent you the sheet. This is the sheet from my last sack of BoPils (click pic):


You can see that the Kolbach Index is above 40 so there shouldn't be a problem with clarity or foam due to protein with a single infusion mash (George Fix). I have an Oktoberfest lagering and am brewing a Helles with this malt and did not/will not do a protein rest on both. Do you still have the sack number from the malt you used in the beer with foam issues? I've had sacks of Weyermann regular Pils that were around 38 so I did a 20 min protein rest and foam and clarity were good. I've never intentionally omitted a protein rest due to a low Kolbach Index. That is the next experiment I guess.

Nate
 

greenbirds

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Sorry to the OP for leading this thread somewhat off-topic, but to Nate:

Yes I still have the sack. Thanks for the info, I will email them and check the KI.
 
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