Need a Ziegenbock like recipie

[Dr_Deathweed]

First off I would like to say hello all, I have been MIA for a couple months, and have missed hanging out on here immensely.

I have been brewing for about 6 months now, doing AG for about 3ish, and my wife wants me to do something for her. She enjoys my beers, and REALLY likes apfelwein, but wants something more like Ziegenbock that she can drink regularly.

Any suggestions?

 

[brewt00l]

I'm not familiar with it since it's only distributed in Texas but from reading reviews of it, it sure sounds like it would be easy enough to brew something a touch better..... most of the reviews compare it to a mildly malty amber brew.

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Ziegnbock is just an A-B produced American lager, correct?

At least thats what I take from reading the beeradvocate reviews (none of the ones I read rated it higher than 2.5-3 stars). Light, watery, adjunct heavy, American lager that is amber in color, low in hops, and even low in malt taste. Every one of the three reviews I read had "bland" in its description...

Your best bet, if you really want to replicate this, is to just get an American Lager kit (which will use 2-row and probably corn/rice) or recipe and give it some amber color with some crystal 60L or something. You'll need to be a able to lager to produce this obviously...

Honestly though, it's probably just cheaper (or at least way easier) to buy the Ziegenbock than to reproduce it?

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

Yes, Ziegnbock is just an A-B produced American lager that may be "bland" compared to anything else I/we make, but when we are out and its just BMC on tap, it has become our poison of choice. While it may be much cheaper and easier just to buy it (used to do it by the keg, but now the kegerator is designated homebrew for use ) I 1) wouldn't be brewing, and 2) couldn't tack on other items to an order for "her" beer

I do like your idea RoaringBrewer about just darkening an American Lager kit, and may try that in the future when I am able to lager. But if you have sugestions on doing this with an ale, let me know.

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Hmm.... Doing it with an ale will be more challenging, but I like a challenge.

Here are my thoughts:

1) You'd need to start with a lawnmower ale, blonde, or Kolsch recipe probably. These are light (low ABV, low IBU) recipes that may get you close.

2) I still think you'd need to use some adjunct, corn or rice, to get the right flavor profile.

3) Darken it just a tad with some 40L or 60L crystal.

4) I probably wouldn't use any type of specialty yeast, like the Kolsch yeast, which may give fruity or estery profile. Maybe just something like Safale S-05 - a clean, crisp, neutral American ale yeast. Or, if you can get temps in the high 50s - low 60s, you could consider using something like California Lager yeast? I know this would give you a steam type beer, but the lower you can ferment you might cut out some of those characteristics and have it lean lager-ways.

Yeast is going to be your tough variable when trying to brew an ale as a lager. I would probably just do the S-05 and try to ferment as cool as you possibly can and the yeast will allow.

I'm known for throwing together recipes in beersmith when challenges like this arise, so don't be surprised to see one in a few hours.

 

[RoaringBrewer]

I came across this in another thread:

"If you haven't already, you should give the Jamil Show on Classic American Pils a listen to. Packed full of great info, including a detailed account of how to do a cereal mash for the corn."

I don't know much about mashing corn or rice, since I have never done it. So this would be a good place to start on that subject.

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Ok, so I never had or have seen a Ziegenbock lager, but here is my ale-version stab at it if you will.

Basing this 'clone' off the little info I have, I made it to result in 4.1%ABV beer, 15IBU, and use some Crystal 60L for color and maybe a little bit of malt flavor (caramel, etc.) that might come through. I used rice extract, but feel free to mash the comparable amount of rice or corn if you have the know-how.

You can adjust the Crystal 60 slightly to get the right Amber color - I just don't know how amber it really is, so I kept it on the light side. See notes at the bottom for my recommendations on fermenting (cool) and serving:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: "Ziegenbock Blonde - with Amber hues"
Style: Blonde Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (0.0) Attempting to clone the A-B Ziegenbock, but do so in Ale form.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG - est 4.1%ABV
Estimated Color: 8.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 14.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 66.7 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 10.0 %
1.75 lb Rice Extract Syrup (7.0 SRM) Extract 23.3 %
0.66 oz Hallertauer [4.80%] (60 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
0.33 oz Hallertauer [4.80%] (10 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
1 Pkgs California Ale (WLP001) or Safale S-05 Yeast-Ale

1Pkgs Knox Gelatin - Last 3-4 days in carboy before kegging.

Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 5.75 lb
----------------------------


Notes:
------
Ferment as low as the yeast will allow to prevent excess fruitiness/esters/etc.

Single stage ferment for 2 weeks. Clear with gelatin, then keg.

Substitute real rice (or possibly corn) and mash if possible.

Recipe assumed 75% mash efficiency. If you can't achieve this, add .5-1lb pils malt to compensate.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[RoaringBrewer]

If you brew this, let me know. I've never desired to 'waste' 6 hours of my time to brew something that replicated a light American Lager, but if this turns out to actually be good. I do have some BMC friends that might enjoy. Maybe we could brew this to get them into homebrewing...

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

Wow, thanks for the reply, that looks like it will be worth a shot and may do the trick. Now just a shot in the dark... what about using Munich malt as part of the grain bill for a maltier profile, kind of like a..... BMC Oktoberfest? Good idea/Bad idea? Thanks again for your help!

Oh, I was playing in Beer Smith and could not figure out how you post your recipes. <--n00b Thanks!

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Wow, thanks for the reply, that looks like it will be worth a shot and may do the trick. Now just a shot in the dark... what about using Munich malt as part of the grain bill for a maltier profile, kind of like a..... BMC Oktoberfest? Good idea/Bad idea? Thanks again for your help!

Oh, I was playing in Beer Smith and could not figure out how you post your recipes. <--n00b Thanks!

A little Munich might go a long way in this, but I stayed away from it b/c I was trying to get as close to Ziegenbock as I could. 1lb would probably shine through a bit in a light beer like this? I wouldn't do more than a pound though. And I'd replace a lb. of pilsner malt in order to keep it at 4%ABV...

I just export my recipe to a text file on my desktop, then cut and paste...

 

[RoaringBrewer]

PS - If you brew this, and it turns out decent, I'd be interested to try a sample!

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

PS - If you brew this, and it turns out decent, I'd be interested to try a sample!

Will do! I will probably be trying this out right after the new year!

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Will do! I will probably be trying this out right after the new year!

Awesome. Let me know how it is... If its "Goooooooood" for a blonde, let me know and I'll paypal you some funds to ship me a couple bottles? Then I may be more intrigued to brew up something this light...

 

[Wolfbayte]

Did the OP ever make this or otherwise follow up?

 

[Vestal81]

When do u put in the rice extract.. never used any