Need a Yeast Whisperer to tell me of their ways

[ArchaeoBrewer]

Hi folks,

First time poster here. I was hoping to get some insight as to why I’m seeing a difference in the performance of my yeast in two brews that I just started.

TL;DR: yeast behaving differently between two very different but also similar batches of cider.

For context: yesterday, I started a 3-gal batch of plain apple cider and a 1-gal batch of berry cider. The plain batch consisted of 3-gal of my favorite unfiltered apple cider, 6.5g of Safale S-04 yeast, 1.5tsp pectic enzyme, 4.5g of Fermaid O yeast nutrient, and 3/4 tsp of wine tannin. The flavored batch consists of 1-gal of the same cider, 2.3g of Safale S-04 yeast, 1/2tsp pectic enzyme, 1.5g Fermaid O yeast nutrient, ~1lb of crushed frozen berries (sweet and tart cherries, blueberries), and 2 cups of strong hibiscus flower tea sweetened with enough sugar to match the sugar content of the cider that I am using. Both the berries and the hibiscus tea that I’m using were brought to room temperature before adding to the mix. The berry cider is in a 1+ galling fermentation bucket and the plain cider is in a 3-gal glass carboy. Both batches are stored in a ~70F room.

The situation: seeing that we’re just 24hrs into this I know it’s still really early, but already I’ve noticed that the 3-gal batch of plain cider is already quite active— giving off a very steady stream of bubbles. The smaller batch of berry cider has no activity whatsoever. I was just wondering if there was an obvious explanation for why I might be experiencing this delay in fermentation with the berry cider. Could it be related to me using an improper yeast variety, is this normal for flavored ciders, or could it be some other factor that I’m not thinking of?

I know that it’s too early to be concerned, I’m just more curious about the effect that these variables might be having on the health/behavior of my yeast.

Secondary question, would it be a bad move to pitch a second variety of yeast into the berry cider? I have a couple of varieties of wine yeasts that more closely align with what I see other folks using for berry ciders, so I can’t help but wonder if the difference in performance is due to the misalignment of yeast strain to must composition.

 

[Maylar]

Way too early to get concerned. Patience, Grasshopper...

 

[ArchaeoBrewer]

Way too early to get concerned. Patience, Grasshopper...

Right you were! I started seeing activity on day three in my smaller berry batch. In the following days it's never quite reached the activity level that I'm seeing with the plain batch, but maybe that has to do with the size of the batches.

I wasn't so much worried about whether my ferment would ever get up off the ground, as I was mainly searching for answers to why I saw a difference. Never been able to shake the never ending stream of why questions.

Thanks Maylar!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Could it be related to me using an improper yeast variety, is this normal for flavored ciders, or could it be some other factor that I’m not thinking of?

S-04 is certainly not an "improper" strain for cider - a lot of what is sold as cider yeast is just beer or wine yeast with a different label, and in general mainstream ale yeasts are some of the best options for "straight" cider at least.

It's hard to tell when you've got so many different variables - if you really wanted to do this properly you would keep the volume and fermenting vessel the same, whilst adding tea, cherries, blueberries etc separately to different batches.

It could just be a volume effect - a bigger volume means more CO2 ending up at the surface and forming a visible "fizz". Or it could be that the tea or fruit have been given some kind of anti-microbial treatment that also inhibits yeast. For instance I've heard of asthmatics having problems with frozen strawberrries because they were sweetened with corn syrup that had been dosed with sulphites.

So in the first instance, look closely at the ingredients of your additives, otherwise - experiment with changing one variable at a time.

 

[dmtaylor]

Acidity from the fruit.

Patience. This will be fine after another day. I can almost guarantee it.