Natural Gas Hookup

[hafmpty]

I've been think of converting my three Blichmann burners to NG. I went down to my basement to check the situation out and saw that behind my dryer there is what looks like an unused appliance hookup. It's a couple feet from the door that leads out to the patio where I brew. If I were to attach a shut off valve with a quick disconnect to the male flare sticking out of the pipe and then attach a 10-15ft 1/2" NG rated hose and take it outside and hook it up to the burners (with needle valves attached of course), would I have he necessary parts to get NG to my burners?

I never run all three burners at the same time, but if I ever need to, what would be the best method of hooking this up (T inside after the on/off valve to three separate hoses? One long hose to a three way split to flex hose? What?)

I've got a friend who will help with the installation so I won't blow myself up.

I've attached a couple pictures because I want to know what I'm looking at. Is the first picture the on/off valve for the line? The second picture is the flare outlet.


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[Airplanedoc]

Is there a new oriface you can buy for for a bilchmann burner? NG is not a direct replacement for propane. I know for a grill you use almost 2x the amount of NG as you would propane.

On your stand I would just run a manifold with a tee for each burner then a short hose up to the burner.

I'm not sure a 1/2" would supply enough gas for 3 burners. You would have to add up their full rated consumption and see how much gas a 1/2" line will flow

 

[b-boy]

I use ng. I run 2 jet burners on 1/2 Inch pipe. 3 might be stretching it. I have a stand with a manifold made from black pipe. My burners are in line.


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[Airplanedoc]

Looks like a 20' run of 1/2" will allow for about 85ft^3 of gas which would get you aprox 85000 btu in tot, you would have to include all your pipe On your standard well.

 

[hafmpty]

Looks like a 20' run of 1/2" will allow for about 85ft^3 of gas which would get you aprox 85000 btu in tot, you would have to include all your pipe On your standard well.

What do you mean the "standard well"?

My thoughts at this point if I go forward are to:

1. Remove the flare from the tee in the picture above and replace it with 1/2" BIP over to the door frame (~2ft).
2. Install a 1/2" gas shut-off valve and hose quick disconnect on the end of the BIP.
3. Use a 10ft of 1/2" quick disconnect hose.
4. Attach a 1/2" Tee at the end of the hose to split the supply.
5. Attach 2 3' 1/2" hoses to the tee.
6. Attach 1/2" to 3/8" flare reducers to the ends of the 2 hoses to hook up to the NG needle valves on each burner.

My questions though, related to the posts above are:
1. Each burner is 60,000BTU. This means I need 120,000BTU of NG to supply the burners with enough fuel to operate. If I wanted to be able to run a third burner, I would need 180,000BTU. Is that correct?

2. According to this chart

I will be getting 174,000BTU through the 10' 1/2 hose. Dividing that in two and adding the additional 3' of hose to each burner means means if I run them together I'll have ~76,000BTU going to each burner. (To get this number I estimated a 15' run halving the difference between 1/2" at 10' and 1/2' at 20'.) Is this corrrect?

3. Another question. Do I also need to factor the length of 1/2" pipe that is coming off the main line that runs to the door? The main supply line I think is 1.5" (see the picture above to correct me). There is probably another 10ft of 1/2" pipe before I get to where I would have the hose connection. That would mean a total 1/2" run of about 25-30ft before I get to the burners. That would mean, according to the chart, that I would have between 96,000-107,000BTU. That's enough for one burner, but definitely not two. Is this correct? Am I understanding this corrrectly?

4. So what it looks like I would need to do to make this happen is get either 1.5" or 1.25" pipe over to the door. Install a shut off valve and QD and use 3/4" hose to supply my burners. At 20' or less, I would have enough BTU to run all three burners at the same time. Am I seeing this correctly?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Airplanedoc]

"Standard well" some midnight iphone spell check thing. Should have been brew stand.

I would go with option 4

 

[The_Bishop]

You have to analyze your entire run, from the meter to the appliance. Looks like that unused dryer run splits off a 1 1/4" supply line, so your run to that is fine. I can't see what's coming off the top of that T fitting, and it's a bit important. The CF/H rating is determined by the entire run from where it splits off the main line to where the appliance is. How far from the T is that dryer connection? Also, each elbow adds in restriction, so it makes your effective 'length' longer.

Also, I don't think I'd use a quick disconnect inside a house. They're not rated for indoor use, and (I'm no expert, I only know from plumbing my entire home for natural gas myself, to code, with inspections) probably violate code. You do *not* want a potential gas leak in your home. Run hard pipe and put your disconnect outside with a shut-off valve in easy reach.

Edit: According to what you're saying, you'd have an effective 73-82 CFH or 73000-82000 BTU. Not 96000-10700.

 

[twisted_metal]

semi off-topic

but if you dont end up using that line, make sure and get it capped. its part of the code and just good practice.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

I just ran a 1/2" supply line all the way to my rig, then a tee and used flex pipe to run to my burners. I don't see any reason to run separate lines to each burner. My burners are 150,000 btu/hr NG jet burners. I only have two of them because I don't direct fire my MLT. As airplanedoc pointed out, you need the right orifices on your burners to run NG. If you are set up for propane you are either going to have to replace the orifices (if that's possible with your burners) or buy new burners. I can't run both of my burners at full throttle, but I can run them both at about 3/4. I rarely have the need to crank them both up this high though. The only time I need to crank them both is when I'm heating up strike and infusion water at the same time. I doubt you'll need to run all your burners at full throttle at the same time, and if you do it won't be for very long. I would test things out before you go crazy with larger diameter pipe or separate lines for each burner. You're also going to be limited by the pressure your NG provider is pushing into your home. So larger pipe won't necessarily mean more flow unless you have the pressure to back it up. I'm not saying you don't, just something to consider.

 

[hafmpty]

I can't see what's coming off the top of that T fitting, and it's a bit important.

The fitting coming off the 1 1/4" Tee is a 1/2" Tee with the top capped. Don't know why they did that. May have previously gone upstairs to run gas for the range. It's electric now.

Also, I don't think I'd use a quick disconnect inside a house.

My plan was to have the shut off valve inside behind the dryer attached directly to the supply pipe. The quick disconnect would be on the OUT of the shut off valve. When brew day is over, the shut off valve would be off. Is this not safe?

How far from the T is that dryer connection? Also, each elbow adds in restriction, so it makes your effective 'length' longer.

Like I said, I'm not at home to measure exactly, but I would guess it is about 10ft-12ft. There is one elbow at the wall. How would this affect the numbers?

I just ran a 1/2" supply line all the way to my rig, then a tee and used flex pipe to run to my burners.

Sorry for the confusion. This is essentially my plan. 1/2" supply all the way to the burners with a tee splitting the feed. Well, that WAS my plan, if I can get the necessary pressure and BTU's.

My next question then, is, how difficult is it to replace the 1.25" reducing tee that feeds that 1/2" pipe? Would I have to take all the pipes off that main feed to replace that one piece?

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Check for dirt dauber nests inside your tap there, before you hook it all up...........You'll thank me later........



Edit: Best not to put the "QD" inside the structure, regardless of the short run from the shutoff valve.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

My next question then, is, how difficult is it to replace the 1.25" reducing tee that feeds that 1/2" pipe? Would I have to take all the pipes off that main feed to replace that one piece?

Depends on how long the run is, how many fittings are in-between the tee in question and the end of run and where the run of pipe goes. Probably a PITA, but certainly doable. You'll have to take the whole run apart from the opposite end all the way back to the tee you want to replace and then do the whole thing in reverse to put it back together. You might get lucky and end up with a piece or two that won't need to be all the way disassembled. The more fittings involved the more tedious it is. Finding a union somewhere would be great. I know you said someone will be helping you, but make sure you leak test everything really really good once you put it back together. Can't stress than enough.

 

[hafmpty]

Depends on how long the run is, how many fittings are in-between the tee in question and the end of run and where the run of pipe goes. Probably a PITA, but certainly doable.

I'll check it out tonight to see what I'm working with. Maybe I'll get lucky. We'll see.

Here's another thought, weird as it might be. Could I leave the tee coming from the 1 1/4" main line. Take the shut off valve off (see the picture) and install a 1/2" to 1 1/4" reducing coupling to get the pipe back up to 1 1/4" and then finish the run with the 1 1/4" pipe? With such a short run of 1/2" pipe (4" or less), how would this affect the overall flow?

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Here's another thought, weird as it might be. Could I leave the tee coming from the 1 1/4" main line. Take the shut off valve off (see the picture) and install a 1/2" to 1 1/4" reducing coupling to get the pipe back up to 1 1/4" and then finish the run with the 1 1/4" pipe? With such a short run of 1/2" pipe (4" or less), how would this affect the overall flow?

That's a good question. I don't know. With a bottle neck like that, my intuition is that you might get a little better flow than just running 1/2" all the way from the tee, but not enough to accomplish your goal or justify the extra cost of the larger pipe.

 

[reynolds5520]

The picture looks like the tap side of the big tee is 3/4 inch. You could pretty easily start from there and run 3/4 the rest of the way to your outdoor connection.

 

[hafmpty]

The picture looks like the tap side of the big tee is 3/4 inch. You could pretty easily start from there and run 3/4 the rest of the way to your outdoor connection.

It just might be 3/4". If it is, that pretty much solves my problem. I'll check when I get home.

Is the measurement of black pipe measured OD or ID?

 

[reynolds5520]

Pipe sizes are stated as nominal I.D.

If it's 3/4 pipe, it will measure a bit over 1 inch O.D. on the exposed nipple between the two tees.

 

[hafmpty]

Well as near as I can tell it is 3/4". I'll attach a few pics for a second (and third) opinion. How does this change what I'll need to do? Will I have enough gas if I take it 3/4" for the 10ft run to the door and the use a 3/4" hose to get outside? Here's what I'm thinking. Shoot holes please.

1. Remove the 1/2" line and replace it with 3/4" (10ft w/ 3 elbows)
2. Use 10ft of 3/4 hose with a 3/4" to 1/2" tee on the end.
3. To this attach two 3ft 1/2" lines to get gas to the burners.


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[hafmpty]

Forgot the pictures and apparently can't add them in edit mode on mobile. First pic is the main line. Second is the tee in question. Third is the best I could do at measuring the pipe in question. Looks like 1" OD roughly.


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