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shafferpilot

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BuffaloSabresBrewer said:
Im an ordained reverend and you are forgiven.
Oh, yeah, sure. And down the road, I'm gonna owe you, right? Looks like I'll fit right in with those capitol hill jokers:mug:
 

EvilTOJ

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I would make a horrible politician. I have the tactfulness of Adam Corrola, and the unbiasedness like Maddox. Special interest groups would give me suggestions written on money and I'd take it, not even thinking that maybe they wanted something in return.

I am rather lazy though. I do have that going for me.
 

srm775

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Skunkyhops said:
... im frustrated with my government and the media guilting people like you into believing that you need the government and they are looking out for your best interests. I dont know about you but 3+ dollars a gallon isnt really in my best interest.

oh and the schools, parks, roads im pretty sure are paid for with tax money that WE all pay
$3+ dollars per gallon of gasoline is YOUR right to a free market right there. That is simple laws of economics of supply & demand. The more we demand gasoline, the lower the supplies will be, thus driving up prices. It's really got very little to do with the govt.

Sure, there are taxes levied on gasoline, but if there weren't you wouldn't be able to drive anywhere. The taxes you pay on gasoline are probably the most equitable of all types of taxes, it's called a user fee tax. The more you drive, the more gas you consume, so the more you pay in taxes. Those taxes collected are then used to pay for highway projects and maintenance and mass transit projects.

The federal govt. collects, on avg. 18.3 cents per gallon of gas the rest of the tax obligation is your state and local govt. taxing gasoline.
 

Gammon N Beer

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srm775 said:
$3+ dollars per gallon of gasoline is YOUR right to a free market right there. That is simple laws of economics of supply & demand. The more we demand gasoline, the lower the supplies will be, thus driving up prices. It's really got very little to do with the govt.

Sure, there are taxes levied on gasoline, but if there weren't you wouldn't be able to drive anywhere. The taxes you pay on gasoline are probably the most equitable of all types of taxes, it's called a user fee tax. The more you drive, the more gas you consume, so the more you pay in taxes. Those taxes collected are then used to pay for highway projects and maintenance and mass transit projects.

The federal govt. collects, on avg. 18.3 cents per gallon of gas the rest of the tax obligation is your state and local govt. taxing gasoline.
And in Wisconsin, and probably in most states our roads are built and maintained ONLY using 1) Gas tax, 2) Registration fees, 3) Borrowing money to be paid back using 1 and 2.

No income taxes or business taxes go into this stream.
 

brauhaus

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Peter Griffin's rants are nonsensical. :D

I for one am not for Free Health Care, I think ideally the thought is nice, but you know our government will eff it up somehow.
 
OP
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Skunkyhops

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srm775 said:
$3+ dollars per gallon of gasoline is YOUR right to a free market right there. That is simple laws of economics of supply & demand. The more we demand gasoline, the lower the supplies will be, thus driving up prices. It's really got very little to do with the govt.

Supply and demand my ass. Its been over thirty years since we have built an oil refinery. Why? If there is a high enough demand to keep gas rising on a daily basis why not increase supply? Oh wait thats right if the price of gas goes down the government gets less money. You think maybe there is a reason of why they are limiting the supply? It sure as hell isnt because we dont want to run out of oil. A Free market solution would be somebody going up to Alaska and tapping into the oil fields there, and magically the price of gas goes down.
 

Dr_Deathweed

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Tried to stay out of this but.......

You gotta pay taxes? so what? You cant smoke pot, boo hoo! You complain about $3 a gallon at the pump, but I hear no one complaining about $5 for a cup of coffee. And I hear nothing about a coffee shortage, in fact, I hear about raising prices to pay the farmers more!

If anything, I believe that Americans are spoiled, whiny brats who would never elect "the right person" for an office to make the "needed changes" because we have been spoiled by freedom and our own opinions for so long that it is impossible for us to man up to any situation. This may sound like a bad thing, but the fact you are in this discussion now means several things:
1. You are aware (if even somewhat) of the situation at had, you have some sort of access to the media
2. You are on an Internet forum, this requires at minimum the Internet, a computer, and electricity
3. You are on a homebrewing forum, that means you have at least some disposable income and time to pursue your your interests
4. You are a home brewer: On top of time and money, you must have shelter, running water, a vehicle, food... Most likely a TV, cable, a refrigerator etc. etc. etc.
5. We are having a political discussion with many viewpoints, and I haven't heard of a single person getting arrested, beaten, put in a work camp, disappearing (chime in here if you have dissapeared...:cross: )
6. You have a personal opinion and are able to express it freely even if it differs from those around you/our government.

Are we REALLY that bad off? Is anyone TRULY oppressed? Or are you just complaining about things that "oh, it would be cool if we had, but...." Hell, while we are at it, instead of lower gas prices/no taxes/pot, why don't we petition for government issued big screen flat panel TV's, in every home! (or sterilization procedures for celebrities...:D )

/rant
 

Buford

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Just because things aren't nearly as bad as they could be doesn't mean we should be satisfied with what we do have and not work for better.
 

Dr_Deathweed

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Buford said:
Just because things aren't nearly as bad as they could be doesn't mean we should be satisfied with what we do have and not work for better.

My point isn't so much we should be satisfied, but more to think, is what your asking for REALLY worth arguing over, or are we getting greedy? Sure, I am all for finding better ways to install a system of taxes, a more efficient/less insurance driven health care system, a civil court system that isn't tied up with petty and frivolous claims. Things that could be a benefit to the WHOLE. But when people start listing out little petty things and just arbitrarily blame it on the government and screaming, "La Revolucion" over gas prices, whether or not they can get high, or if they can keep a couch on their front porch... Sure you can moan about it on the internet, or you can get up, and build a couch shrine in the backyard!

There can be no perfect system of government, because no matter what you are going to peeve someone off. Ex.:

"I can't get high!"/"I don't want my children influenced by mind altering substances"
"I shouldn't have to spend $100 at the pump to fill up my SUV!"/"Why are we still producing poor mileage vehicles when we had the technology 60 years ago to get 50mpg?"
"We should pump more oil to meet demand."/"We are destroying the environment, stop global warming!."
"We need more oil refineries to meet the increasing demand!"/"We should punish the petroleum industry for polluting our environment"
"Big business is evil."/"My small business should be able to freely grow and enjoy a free market."
"Pro Life!"/"Pro Choice!"
"Evolution!"/"Creationism!"
"Coke!"/"Pepsi!"
ad infinitum....

My thoughts are think about what you want, think about the negative consequences that it may have, think about the benefits. See if it is really worth it. If you can make a good, unbiased argument on how an action can better mankind as a whole, start a petition, run for office, do what it takes to get it changed! If you cant make the argument/too lazy to do what it takes, don't get worked up when someone puts forth an opposing view. And next time you feel worked up about the "damn government" take a step back and think, "What would have to change for me to get what I want, is it worth it, who would be hurt/helped, and is it REALLY worth putting all this effort into even thinking about it?"

Striving for something better is allright, but make sure it really is better for everyone involved...
 

uglygoat

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teh op said:
Im sick and tired of this country being ran by a bunch of lying, money hungry, and corrupt politicians. This country was founded by the people for the people if im not mistaken
didn't read past there. ;)

the country was founded by landed gentry. women, those who didn't own land, and slaves couldn't vote.

edit: the founders didn't object to tax per se, just tax that wasn't levied in their favor... ;)
 

EdWort

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brewhead said:
comunist countries provide parks, roads, shcools and train their military as well.
Communists provide NOTHING that was not aquired first by the barrel of a gun or with funds STOLEN from individuals that WORK and EARNED them.

Ask any poor Russian.
 

brewhead

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Communists provide NOTHING that was not aquired first by the barrel of a gun or with funds STOLEN from individuals that WORK and EARNED them.
and we're dfferent how? because you've been sold an illusion of freedom? please!
 

Dr_Deathweed

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illusion of freedom?

You are FREE to voice your opinion.
You are FREE to go work where ever you want(unless you screwed up that RIGHT somehow)
You are FREE to practice any religion/non-religion you want
You are FREE to NOT work if you don't want too (though debt collectors may say otherwise)
You are FREE from unreasonable searches/seizures/forced to quarter military
You are FREE to a public, trial by jury without unreasonable bails or torture.

I would say pull out a globe, close your eyes, give it a spin and point. Go try to practice your "illusion" there. If you don't drown from being stuck in the middle of the Pacific, I'd say you have a pretty good chance of being arrested, beaten, and never seen again.
 

brewhead

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as i said earlier in this thread - i didn't grow up in this country - left at 6 months old - i am WELL familiar with the globe
 

srm775

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Skunkyhops said:
Supply and demand my ass. Its been over thirty years since we have built an oil refinery. Why? If there is a high enough demand to keep gas rising on a daily basis why not increase supply? Oh wait thats right if the price of gas goes down the government gets less money. You think maybe there is a reason of why they are limiting the supply? It sure as hell isnt because we dont want to run out of oil. A Free market solution would be somebody going up to Alaska and tapping into the oil fields there, and magically the price of gas goes down.
First, I don't know what you mean by "we have built an oil refinery." Do you mean the government? The government doesn't build oil refineries, companies like Citgo, BP, Shell etc. build oil refineries. "We," as in the American public, doesn't build oil refineries. That's the way it is with capitalism. Privately-help entities (companies) pay the capital costs for money making ventures. And oil refineries aren't being built because they aren't profitable to those companies ... nothing to do with taxes.

Second, correct me if I'm mistaken, but the longest oil and gas pipeline in the world runs through Alaska, right? Yes, there is a prohibition on exploratory drilling in the ANWAR region of Alaska. So what ... There's also a prohibition on drilling in Yellowstone and every other federal park in this country. I don't think it's wrong to have printine areas of this country protected for a common good.

Third, you're still wrong. The federal tax on gas isn't based off of a percentage. It's a flat tax. Each gal. of gasoline is taxed at 18.3 cents per gallon. The supply and price of gas doesn't have anything to do with it. If gas were $0.99 a gallon, the government would still collect 18.3 cents per gallon, just like when it's $3.09. It's a user fee tax, not a sliding scale tax or percentage tax.

Also, it's not the government (at least our govt.) that is limiting the supply, it's the corporations of our free market. They are artificially limiting supply, but shutting down or scaling back refinery production to drive up the cost of gasoline. That explains why Exxon made record profits of $10 BILLION in ONE QUARTER. Again, not the government but a "free market" at work.
 

Gammon N Beer

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It will soon be time to begin circulating nomination papers to get your name on the ballot. If you are not interested in Federal congressional offices, there are statewide offices and legislative seats in your state. If that is not of interest to you there is your local county, city, township and school boards as an option. If that is not your cup of tea, maybe seeking an appointment to your fire and police commission, library board, sewer and water commision etc.

Some of us actually do do the work to keep the place running. We need help. Complaints are nice, but actual hands to do the work is appreciated at times as well.
 
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