MyPin TA6 PID controller settings/wiring help

[josh623]

Hey guys! I don't do home brewing, but I do have a question and need help with my PID controller. I got a food warmer oven that I am wiring up to do bake-on firearm and knife finishes with a product called Cerakote. Anyway...

I wired everything up but I am not getting any power to my heating elements... (its a 230-240v system and everything was pre-wired, I just replaced the normal switch to turn the oven on and up with the PID controller). I am getting the full power to my PID controller, but on the output that goes to my SSR I am only getting power (about 50v) on one of the wires and not the other... did I wire wrong or is this just a setting?

note: the conduit that has both sets of the red and black wires coming out of it used to go to the old switch: the two plain colors are the hot wires, and the two with the yellow tape on them are the dead wires (which I assumed were supposed to be "connected" by the switch)

 

[josh623]

whoa...as i was looking on the forums I found a suggestion to lookup the manual for the Syl-2342 manual and check out the instructions for a cross reference (since they are easier to follow)... Here is a link to the manual. Now I'm confused as ever... I think I may have my wiring all wrong? Any help would be much appreciated!!

"3.4 For first time users without priorexperience with PID controllers, the following notes may prevent you from making common mistakes.
3 . 4 . 1 Power to the h ea t e r does not flow through terminal 9 and 1 0 of the
controller. The controller consumes less than 2 watts of power. It only
provides a control signal to the relay. Therefore, wires in the 18 to 26 gauge
range should be used for providing power to terminals 9 and 10. Thicker wires
may be more difficult to install.
3.4.2 The control relay outputs (for SYL-2342), -AL1 and AL2, are “dry” single
pole switches. They do not provide power by themselves. Please see Figure
6, 7 and 11 for how they are wired when providing a 120V output (or when
output voltage is the same as the power source for the controller). If the load
of the relay requires a different voltage than that for the controller, another
power source will be needed. See Figure 10 for examples.
3.4.3 SSR output power does not come from the input of the SSR. The output
of the SSR is a single pole switch between terminals 1 and 2 of the SSR. The
input of the SSR is for control, or triggering the SSR. (Please note we are
talking about the SSR itself, not the SSR control output of the controller).
When switching a North American 240V AC power, the heater will be live
even when the SSR is off. Users should install a double pole mechanical
switch to the power input.
3.4.4. For all controller models listed in this manual, the power is controlled by
regulating the duration of on time for a fixed period of time. It is not controlled
by regulating amplitude of the voltage or current. This is often referred as time
proportional control. e.g. If the cycle rate is set for 100 seconds, a 60% output
means controller will switch on the power for 60 seconds and off for 40
seconds (60/100=60%). Almost all high power control systems use time
proportional control because amplitude proportional control is too expensive
and inefficient."

So I should have live power going directly to the output terminals of my SSR? *so confused*

check it out...

 

[BigFloppy]

yeah, the output terminals of the ssr are effectively automated version of the manual switch. connected to it per the diagram.

 

[josh623]

L1 and L2 are both supposed to be hot, right?

 

[BigFloppy]

you'll only be able to control one of the 2 legs of the 240v total.

Basically, the heater should not work if no volts on it's L1 leg (that's the theory anyways)
BUT if you need to control both legs, you can generally run multiple SSR's from single ssr output, that way... you'd be turning both L1 and L2 off

 

[josh623]

got it working! Thanks so much.

quick question, what does the Autotune function do? The manual for this thing isn't very detailed... Also, do you have any suggestions for settings? I need to heat this up to around 300F and maintain consistently for 2-3 hours.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm ashamed to admit I was thinking backwards while wiring the ssr and almost made the same mistake but caught myself just as I was about to attach the second wire.... this is one reason I wish I had made a diagram because its tougher when doing everything from memory in your head. I did rely on different diagrams here from time to time to straighten myself out... the rtd sensors were the biggest pain since the info was scarce for the correct wiring on the different models.

 

[jCOSbrew]

Put a heat sink on that SSR or you will be making black smoke very soon!

 

[Brumateur]

got it working! Thanks so much.

quick question, what does the Autotune function do? The manual for this thing isn't very detailed... Also, do you have any suggestions for settings? I need to heat this up to around 300F and maintain consistently for 2-3 hours.

Autotune mode is for adjustment of P, I and D coefficients to your system.
Just fill your tank with water and engage autotune. it will start heating and doing some measurents. When autotune completed.controller store parametrs value in non volatile memory and will useir on each future runs. Correct PID parrametrs allow you to heat you g ssl with max speed with minimum temperature oscillations.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm wondering if having my pids switched on while the switch for the element off is throwing off my aurotune? It seems the pid sometimes overshoots and climbs 3-4 degrees too high and other times it works well? I'd hate to rewire to kill power to the paid when the element is off because I won't be able to monitor temps.

 

[Brumateur]

I'm wondering if having my pids switched on while the switch for the element off is throwing off my aurotune? .

Nope. Until you manually start autotutene again PID will use old parameters. Try run autotune one more time.

 

[phranch]

Forgive me but I got kinda lost in the technicals of this post. I am also trying to set up a TA 6 PID. It is for a burn-out oven with a 1000 W heater coil on 220VAC, a type K thermocouple and a SSR-25 DA. The worthless documentation (sic) that was included does state to not use any of the schematics shown in the documentation but to instead USE THE ONE ON THE SIDE OF THE PID ITSELF. The pic or attachment I have included here is a copy of that. Now to the heart of the matter--will the schematic shown in post #2 of this thread be correct in my instance? Man, I sure hope that someone is still around to help me on this old post! A thousand thanks in advance to you!

 

[Brumateur]

Now to the heart of the matter--will the schematic shown in post #2 of this thread be correct in my instance?

Nope

 

[phranch]

Thank you, Brumateur. Seems I will never learn to stop embarrassiong myself. When I look back to my post I'm surprised you even took the time! So, since my rear is already showing I'll go again. These
points may not always read as such but they are questions for the most part!

Referring to the pic I posted:

!. My TC (K thermocouple), observing the indicated polarity, connects to 10 and 9.

2. Does my heater coil connect to 9 and 10 as well? (Seems like it should be in series with the TC.)



3. Is there a jumper from 11 to 10?

4. I don't understand the symbol from 9 to the 'little arrow on it's side', which I assume to be the coil (resistor, load). Wikipedia doesn't show it.

5. I place a jumper from 12 to 9.

6. I place a jumper from 11 to 9?

Well Brumateur, if you or any other kind soul will take a few moments of your time to tackle this post, I will be forever grateful! Thank you! (As the old telegraphers used to close with--88 !!!)
7. I don't understand what Pt, B, A, B mean--They are not described in any of the (very poor) documentation provided.

 

[Brumateur]

1. Yes. If you have a K-type thermo couple you need to connect it to 9 and 10.
2. No. Heater coil should be connected to SSR as shown on pic on post #2 , but L1 and L2 should be connected to terminals 1 and 2 f your PID. and SSR terminals 3 and 4 should be wired to PID terminal 7 and 8.
3-6. Never mind. it all about PT type sensor connections. Since you have a K thermocouple just skip it/

 

[phranch]

Sorry I have been so long in acknowledging your very clear and helpful reply.. It was just what I needed! Now I just have to get busy and get it all put together! Thanks again Brumateur.

 

[katherinego]

I just went through this with a MyPin TD4 controller.

I found the wiring diagram in the Caveman Sous Vide post to be very helpful to understand the wiring & the path of the load.

http://cavemanketo.com/caveman-sous-vide/

-k

 

[phranch]

katherinego--Thanks for the post It is with a slightly different viewpoint which makes it helpful. Plus, that project is very interesting in itself!

 

[katherinego]

For sure! Glad to help.

I built my PID mostly to control my smoker, but it can be used for so many projects!

-k

 

[phranch]

Katherinego--OK, that brings up another question. I use charcoal and wood chunks in mine so with my current knowledge, it would seem be difficult to control the temp very quickly unless I would change over to electric heat. So how do you control yours? Selenoid actuated dampers or ??? Thanks again! Phranch

 

[augiedoggy]

Katherinego--OK, that brings up another question. I use charcoal and wood chunks in mine so with my current knowledge, it would seem be difficult to control the temp very quickly unless I would change over to electric heat. So how do you control yours? Selenoid actuated dampers or ??? Thanks again! Phranch

actually most just control a fan with it when it comes to non electric smokers and pids... I didtched my wood smoker and went with an electric model that had the temp probe and controller built in... besides the loss of a smoke ring which is cosmetic the smoker works better for me in every way... I do understand its a nostalgia thing though for many...

 

[katherinego]

So how do you control yours? Selenoid actuated dampers or ??? Thanks again! Phranch

My smoker is electric, so the PID turns the element on and off.

-k

 

[broncosaurs]

I built a simple fan/PID control for my Weber Smokey Mountain. I could do a 14 hr smoke, never adding fuel, with the temps holding +- 4*. I would fill the base up full with charcoal and some smoke wood and then add 10 burning coals. This system works great. Temp changes are slow but very steady. I ran an "auto tune" on the controller with the smoker full of charcoal and a large glass bowl of water for a meat load. The controller went thru 3 cycles over 2 hours auto tuning. After auto tune the thing was so stable. Leave top vent open 100%. All other vents closed 100%. The only air is from the small blower.

Brad

Wiring for the MYPIN controller:

 

[katherinego]

I am running my first smoke with the controller today. Looking good so far!

I just wish I didn't have to open the box all the way to add water & chips.

-k

 

[phranch]

Wow, thank you Auggiedoggie, Katherinego and Brad. You'll never know how much I appreciate your interest. K and Auggiedoggie, you make a pretty strong case for going electric but I have The Marshall Smoker (I do like it) plus I built a hugh native stone smoker that's looks for all the world like a mausoleum, and is big enough to smoke 2 (!) half pigs at once! Those control panels look like they came from the NASA flight control room! And Brad, yours reads like a print-out of my ultimate rig! My smoker is supposed to be pretty air tight but I'm going to look up the Weber Smokey Mountain to see if it is suitable for me to try and adapt to mine. Finally, thanks so much for the 220 version wiring. What a great site and members! Denny

 

[broncosaurs]

katherinego, add a good amount of wood from start. After the outer temperature of the meat reaches ,damn I cant remember the temp but its like 90*, the meat will not absorb any more smoke wood flavor. In fact I think if to much wood is used in an electric smoker the whole smoke it can be a little tart. Brisket and butt maybe 3-4 hours. I started smoking with the Weber SM, added the temp/blower control, then put a electric heater in the SM, then went to a CookShack 250 electric and now have a pellet burner Fast Eddy FEC100. Charcoal -> charcoal/electric -> electric -> electric -> highbred
I keep telling myself to stop, no more but......

Brad

 

[phranch]

Brad--You could be my twin! After my last post, I checked out the Weber SM, liked it, then ordered one thru Ebay. Talk about spontaneously impulsive!! However, it turns out the seller was hacked and at this moment it is not clear at all whether Ebay will stand behind me!!!! But that's another story to be continued. Then you come up with all these other variations--you HAVE to stop! Can't you see how easily influenced I am? Maybe checking out your variations will take my mind off unpleasant matters, so seriously, thank you for the ideas! Denny PS--What made you ditch the SM?

 

[broncosaurs]

phranch, let me help if I can.

Weber SM, good BBQ. Limited to amount of meat, 6 racks of BB ribs if you roll them up or 1 small brisket. More work then the other ways. Setting up, cleaning etc. Long smokes a little more work. Must be careful of getting "bad" smoke, caused by cold fire, on meat. Great to tinker with building controllers etc. If you want to build controller for a charcoal smoker make sure you get a smoker that can be sealed so you can control the air input.

My electric Cook Shack 250 I got well used. Real dirty and very simple controller. I did a real good clean job on it using many cans of easy off and got some parts from cook shack. I built a more advance controller, one that would smoke to a set temp of meat then go to a hold temp. Sooo easy to use put in meat turn on. It would hold as much meat as I would ever need to cook. A little hard to get lots of smoke flavor but do able. Down side, this and all electric smokers use electricity for heat. Is it smoking? In competition smoking the heat source must be wood. If electric is ok to you I would suggest trying a "smoke" in your oven. Take a pork butt or shoulder, rub with a good BBQ rub "Texas BBQ rub is good", rub on a couple table spoons of liquid smoke, cook at 220* till internal temp is 200*, rest, pull the pork, add back some juices. Probable the best pork you have ever had. Serve on an onion bun toasted with butter and garlic salt with mac and cheese and grilled onions all on the sandwich.:rockin:

I then found a used Fast Eddy FEC100 which is the best of both worlds. Easy to use, holds lots of meat ,100#, and it does use wood for heat. The wood source is wood pellets that can be had in many many different types. Add meat, fill wood bin with wood, set temp and go. You will see many of these smokers at the competitions. This smoker also gives me the best BBQ out of the three. Down fall of these smokers, they are real expensive.

Now if I could brew a great beer to go with my great BBQ i"ll be "da man"! This last statement was to keep the post on topic!

 

[phranch]

Broncosaurus--Once again thank you for your help. You just saved me a bunch of $$ on the SM. I could never have known of it's limitations were it not for your pointers. I can smoke 4 big butts in my Marshall which I rarely do. For the type of smoker it is it is fairly close- fitting but nowhere as tight as the SM--and while I asked for it, you and K. have now got me thinking more about electric!! And to get on topic, I am dreamily thinking of brewing a nice full-bodied dark suds to go with that wood or electric smoked pork--both sound pretty good right now at 1:30 AM! Guess I'll head over to eddicate mysef on that Fast Eddy FEC100.......