My Weldless Build Using Strut

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

hyperboarder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
126
Reaction score
6
Location
Meridian
Now those are on backorder, too :(. I couldn't find a good alternative on GP-LLC. Anyone see something I'm missing or have another source?
THK-205-R or -L might work. THK-251 or THK-223 and grind off a wing or leave it as is. Lots of ways to make these work if you're creative :).
 

PowellsPub

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego
THK-205-R or -L might work. THK-251 or THK-223 and grind off a wing or leave it as is. Lots of ways to make these work if you're creative :).
Thanks. The problem with THK-205 is it would lengthen the distance of those side supports and I would need a similar piece to go between the center supports, right?
 

hyperboarder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
126
Reaction score
6
Location
Meridian
It would increase the length of the corner supports by twice the thickness of the bracket (~1/8" each x 2 brackets, so ~.25") but I wouldn't be too concerned about that, the attachment system easily allows for that much play. Not sure how your center supports are set up, but if you're concerned with that extra spacing you could use something like a THK-201-R or -L if they don't tie into cross supports or a number of different ones if they do (another THK-205-R or -L would work, as would a THK-211).
 

herc1354

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
337
Reaction score
31
This is my rig, almost ready to brew my first batch. One PID will control the temps temperature in the HLT, the boil kettle will be manually controlled.

image-3404455608.jpg


image-3382745485.jpg


image-3768756621.jpg
 

JerseyBrewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
91
Reaction score
3
Location
West Deptford
Hi. I have a erector-set based brew stand made from the galvanized L style steel from HD. However, after running it for the last 5-6 brew sessions, I'm getting some serious deflection of the support braces around where the bayou style burners are hanging - we're talking about a good 1/2" - 3/4" drop. Enough that I added another piece to it (didn't help) with my last brew session. I'm only running a 20 gal kettle and usually with only about 17 gals or so in it for the boil.

So, as budget allows, I'm thinking about converting to struts based version. Before I drop another couple hundred... I can see the heat discoloring the support pieces, but has anyone experienced any serious deflection or weaking of the steel where the burners heat the support pieces?
 

snaps10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
739
Reaction score
173
Location
Visalia
An erector set stand is no comparison to an unistrut stand. Unistrut is made to support weight. Slotted angle iron is made only to support light objects. That is shy you see unistrut supportingA/C units, etc. Discoloration has to do with the galvanized steel. This will happen with any galvanized steel.
 
OP
G

gifty74

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
374
Reaction score
49
Location
Lancaster, PA
Yeah, 17 gal on one of the slotted angle steel stands seems like it's pushing the limits of that material. Like someone else posted, these strut stands can basically hold a car if it were parked on top. Super strong. I have put some major heat on mine for 6 or so sessions now and although there is decent discoloration, not a hint of any deflection. I'm guessing I might replace the top sections that are in direct heat every few years, but so far they seem to be holding up well. Some major heat there when bringing it up to boil.
 

HDIr0n

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Messages
543
Reaction score
29
Location
Missouri City
Full Kegs on mine and no deflection, this stuff is very strong. I had the slotted angle and this is much stronger, mostly based on shape.
 

DakotaRules

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
1,592
Reaction score
42
Location
Melrose
I've got 8-10 sessions on mine and I'm brewing 10 gallon batches and starting to get deflection. I'm not opening up my burners full bore either. I figure ill get 2-3 more years then take my blue prints to a uni strut stand.
 

snaps10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
739
Reaction score
173
Location
Visalia
JerseyBrewer said:
Awesome. I guess it's time to pull out the ol' cc and buy some struts! Thanks for the feedback.
You can always spring for stainless too.
 

herc1354

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
337
Reaction score
31
If I could do it all over I would have ordered the fittings direct from the strut manufacture as Home Depot had a limited select of fittings.

http://www.flexstrut.com/strutfittings.htm

Also make sure that what ever you are using to cut the strut channel cuts square, my metal chop saw has enough blade movement that it gave me a fit assembling my stand to be square. All in all I liked how it went together, plus if I need to I can disassemble the entire brew stand.
 

PowellsPub

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego
So I finally placed a big order with strutchannelfittings for a single tier 2 burner setup. Should have everything from them on Tuesday! After pricing it out, it was only an extra $40 or so to get everything cut by them instead of renting a chop saw and trying not to cut off a finger... Last consideration is casters, burners, and propane.

For casters I was thinking https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-3411&catname=wheels. I'm planning to mount the casters directly to the bottom of my vertical supports using an L bracket. Anyone have a better suggestion?

For burners I'm going with two banjo burners. I'm planning to order from Amazon because they're $45 and ship free with Prime (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JXYTG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20), unless anyone knows a better price than $90 shipped for two?

I was also thinking this adjustable 0-30 psi propane regulator (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007PS0938/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20) and then getting the rest of the black pipe and such from Home Depot locally. Does that sound right, or should I go with a set 30 psi regulator?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

bd2xu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
949
Reaction score
52
Location
Atlanta
I'm building a three burner single tier and using banjo 10" for HLT and bk and then a banjo 6" for MLT. I am planning on using the 30 psi reg that came with my bayou kab4 and installing needle valves to control gas to each burner. I bought these casters, http://m.homedepot.com/p/Honey-Can-Do-Urban-4-in-Wheels-4-Pack-SHF-01939/202868258, killer deal $25 for 4 and I triple checked, each one rates for 350lbs.

I'm 99% sure the regulator you posted is the one that comes with the kab4.
 

bd2xu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
949
Reaction score
52
Location
Atlanta
PowellsPub said:
So I finally placed a big order with strutchannelfittings for a single tier 2 burner setup. Should have everything from them on Tuesday! After pricing it out, it was only an extra $40 or so to get everything cut by them instead of renting a chop saw and trying not to cut off a finger... Last consideration is casters, burners, and propane.

For casters I was thinking https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-3411&catname=wheels. I'm planning to mount the casters directly to the bottom of my vertical supports using an L bracket. Anyone have a better suggestion?

For burners I'm going with two banjo burners. I'm planning to order from Amazon because they're $45 and ship free with Prime (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JXYTG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER), unless anyone knows a better price than $90 shipped for two?

I was also thinking this adjustable 0-30 psi propane regulator (http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-Adjustible-Regulator-Assembely/dp/B007PS0938/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1375563216&sr=1-1&keywords=30+psi+regulator) and then getting the rest of the black pipe and such from Home Depot locally. Does that sound right, or should I go with a set 30 psi regulator?
90 shipped is great for these they are 55 each most places. Are you doing windscreens?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OP
G

gifty74

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
374
Reaction score
49
Location
Lancaster, PA
My buddy has a 3 burner single tier and he has 3 of the 10" banjo's (BG14 I think). They crank out the heat but he basically has to throttle them back so the flame doesn't go out around the sides. That's the biggest issue with them. When using. 15" diameter keg as a kettle the 10" burner is just a bit too wide. Lots of guys use them though so it must not be too big of an issue, but all I know is that there's a lot of wasted heat if they're run too high/hot. Anyone else have this experience?
 
OP
G

gifty74

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
374
Reaction score
49
Location
Lancaster, PA
gifty74 said:
My buddy has a 3 burner single tier and he has 3 of the 10" banjo's (BG14 I think). They crank out the heat but he basically has to throttle them back so the flame doesn't go out around the sides. That's the biggest issue with them. When using. 15" diameter keg as a kettle the 10" burner is just a bit too wide. Lots of guys use them though so it must not be too big of an issue, but all I know is that there's a lot of wasted heat if they're run too high/hot. Anyone else have this experience?
I started with a 10-tip jet burner on my setup (as seen in earlier pics) and found for my NG setup it was too much heat. They do not like to be run at less than about 75% throttle/power. I just put on a 6" banjo with NG orifice and it is about perfect for direct fired mash. Fully adjustable down to the lowest of flame, and puts out decent heat at wide open.
 

PowellsPub

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego
I'm building a three burner single tier and using banjo 10" for HLT and bk and then a banjo 6" for MLT. I am planning on using the 30 psi reg that came with my bayou kab4 and installing needle valves to control gas to each burner. I bought these casters, http://m.homedepot.com/p/Honey-Can-Do-Urban-4-in-Wheels-4-Pack-SHF-01939/202868258, killer deal $25 for 4 and I triple checked, each one rates for 350lbs.

I'm 99% sure the regulator you posted is the one that comes with the kab4.
Those casters at Home Depot look great! Anyone used total locking casters like these http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SR5YBA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20? Those ones get great reviews and aren't bad at $42 shipped for a set, but I can't find any info on capacity though. Anyone know if we'll get too much movement with casters like that set from Home Depot?

I have thought about using different burners. I'm using 15 gallon morebeer kettles which are 18" wide though, so I was thinking I may get more benefit from the wider banjo burners. Anyone have any experience with wider kettles? My main goal is shortening heating times as I use a cooler for the mash, but it would also be nice not to have to buy new propane all the time.

Can't wait to start brewing on this thing! :rockin::rockin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HDIr0n

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Messages
543
Reaction score
29
Location
Missouri City
So I finally placed a big order with strutchannelfittings for a single tier 2 burner setup. Should have everything from them on Tuesday! After pricing it out, it was only an extra $40 or so to get everything cut by them instead of renting a chop saw and trying not to cut off a finger... Last consideration is casters, burners, and propane.

For casters I was thinking https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-3411&catname=wheels. I'm planning to mount the casters directly to the bottom of my vertical supports using an L bracket. Anyone have a better suggestion?
I used strut channel fittings caster mounts they are basically a but welded on a 3 hole splice fitting. They work well if you have a horizontal support as a base. If you are going to have legs than it will not work.
http://www.strutchannelfittings.com/THK-1254-THREADED-ROD-BKT-12-13-WELDED-2-HOLE-ATTACH_p_800.html

HTH,
-G
 

bd2xu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
949
Reaction score
52
Location
Atlanta
gifty74 said:
My buddy has a 3 burner single tier and he has 3 of the 10" banjo's (BG14 I think). They crank out the heat but he basically has to throttle them back so the flame doesn't go out around the sides. That's the biggest issue with them. When using. 15" diameter keg as a kettle the 10" burner is just a bit too wide. Lots of guys use them though so it must not be too big of an issue, but all I know is that there's a lot of wasted heat if they're run too high/hot. Anyone else have this experience?
I use a keggle bk on a kab4 (10" banjo) burner now and yes, I don't turn up the gas past halfway. I found the key with keggles is to raise the burner up very close to the keggle, I modified my kab4 per a thread on this forum to raise the burner and it works great.
 

sweetcell

Protruding Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
5,602
Reaction score
1,386
Location
North Bend, WA
My buddy has a 3 burner single tier and he has 3 of the 10" banjo's (BG14 I think). They crank out the heat but he basically has to throttle them back so the flame doesn't go out around the sides. That's the biggest issue with them. When using. 15" diameter keg as a kettle the 10" burner is just a bit too wide. Lots of guys use them though so it must not be too big of an issue, but all I know is that there's a lot of wasted heat if they're run too high/hot. Anyone else have this experience?
you need to cut back the amount of air that is let in. cut the air back completely, crank up the propane, then let more air back in, slowly, until the orange flame is replaced with only blue flame. the blue flames should stick close to the burner, they shouldn't dance too high (if a few dance above the burner that's OK, but you don't want them all up in the air).
 
OP
G

gifty74

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
374
Reaction score
49
Location
Lancaster, PA
you need to cut back the amount of air that is let in. cut the air back completely, crank up the propane, then let more air back in, slowly, until the orange flame is replaced with only blue flame. the blue flames should stick close to the burner, they shouldn't dance too high (if a few dance above the burner that's OK, but you don't want them all up in the air).
Yeah, I think he has it dialed in pretty good as far as quality of burn, it's just that when he cranks it up the heat comes up around the corners. Would be solved with some corner plates. I might actually get some of those from GP-LLC. Save my thermometers a bit. I did get the flame dialed in good now on the BG-12 (6" version) on my rig. Came with a propane orifice and based off some feedback in other threads went just .125" (7/64) and drilled it out. Has a perfect controllable NG flame now. Nice blue tips, and a good range of adjustment without getting the yellow flames. As stated above, that is the biggest issue with using a 10+ tip jet burner for a direct fired mash tun. The flames/heat just cannot be dialed back enough to keep a good quality of flame at a low heat output.
 

JacquesG

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
26
Reaction score
1
Location
Encinitas
This looks great. Now that you've had it for nine months, how do you like it? Can you post some more pics with all your stuff assembled on it? I was going to wait to get a 2" structure built for me as I have no welding experience and now that I've seen this, it looks like a great way to go. Thanks.
JacquesG in San Diego.
 

bd2xu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
949
Reaction score
52
Location
Atlanta
Yeah, I think he has it dialed in pretty good as far as quality of burn, it's just that when he cranks it up the heat comes up around the corners. Would be solved with some corner plates. I might actually get some of those from GP-LLC. Save my thermometers a bit. I did get the flame dialed in good now on the BG-12 (6" version) on my rig. Came with a propane orifice and based off some feedback in other threads went just .125" (7/64) and drilled it out. Has a perfect controllable NG flame now. Nice blue tips, and a good range of adjustment without getting the yellow flames. As stated above, that is the biggest issue with using a 10+ tip jet burner for a direct fired mash tun. The flames/heat just cannot be dialed back enough to keep a good quality of flame at a low heat output.
While we are on the topic of burners, for my three station, single tier I'm building, I am planning on using the 10" banjos for HLT and BK, and 6" banjo for MLT. I have a KAB4 which is a 10" banjo and comes with a 30 psi (adjustable) regulator, that I plan to use.

My idea is to go from Propane Tank -> 30 PSI reg -> black gas pipe -> T fitting -> T fitting -> T fitting -> Cap. From each T fitting I would then have a needle valve -> flexible yellow gas pipe -> burner.

Will this work?? The 10" banjos are rated for 30 PSI, the 6" for 10 PSI I believe. Want to make sure all the burners will get enough gas if running all at the same time and with the needle valves I'll be able to adjust them all sufficiently. And of course, this setup is SAFE!

What do I use to connect the 30 PSI regulator (http://www.bayouclassicstore.com/Replacement_parts/M5HPR-30.html) to the black gas pipe? (is this pipe what people also call manifold?)
 

sweetcell

Protruding Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
5,602
Reaction score
1,386
Location
North Bend, WA
My idea is to go from Propane Tank -> 30 PSI reg -> black gas pipe -> T fitting -> T fitting -> T fitting -> Cap. From each T fitting I would then have a needle valve -> flexible yellow gas pipe -> burner.

Will this work??
yup, should work fine. suggestions for you:
- instead of a T + cap at the far end, you could just use an elbow.
- instead of T --> needle valve --> flexible pipe, why not do T --> flexible pipe --> needle valve. that way the needle valve is up top: easier for you to get to, instead of having to bend over and/or crawl under your stand to get to it. besides, you'll already be at the burner when lighting it - why not have the valve right there?
- cheaper than yellow flexible pipe: http://www.rvsupplyparts.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=237
- you might consider doing: regulator --> T --> black pipe --> T --> black pipe --> elbow. the idea here is to bring the regulator straight into a T and split off to the first burner from there. in this config you only need 2 pieces of pipe instead of three (you're eliminating the pipe between the regulator and the first T). FYI Home Depot sells pre-cut pieces of pipe at set lengths (24", 36", etc). if you can make these measurements work, it's cheaper to buy 2 of these than a whole piece of pipe and then have it cut to size.

What do I use to connect the 30 PSI regulator (http://www.bayouclassicstore.com/Replacement_parts/M5HPR-30.html) to the black gas pipe? (is this pipe what people also call manifold?)
the regulator has female 3/8" Flare Swivel Fitting. black pipe and the T's will be NPT threads, typically 1/2". so you'll need something that will allow you to go from 3/8" flare --> 1/2" NPT. i'm using these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCra...s-Ball-Valve-for-Gas-Dryers-PSSL-12/100129592.
 

bd2xu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
949
Reaction score
52
Location
Atlanta
Sweetcell, thanks this is all great advice.


Can I ask, for the black pipe is 2" ok for all?
 

sweetcell

Protruding Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
5,602
Reaction score
1,386
Location
North Bend, WA
Can I ask, for the black pipe is 2" ok for all?
2" is huge. all my piping is 1/2", as are all the pipes in ever other build i've seen so far. finding 2" fittings, then adapters to bring it down for the tubing and/or burners, is going to be both difficult and expensive. go half-inch.
 

bd2xu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
949
Reaction score
52
Location
Atlanta
sweetcell said:
2" is huge. all my piping is 1/2", as are all the pipes in ever other build i've seen so far. finding 2" fittings, then adapters to bring it down for the tubing and/or burners, is going to be both difficult and expensive. go half-inch.
Oops I meant to type 1/2 not 2. Doh.
 

bd2xu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2012
Messages
949
Reaction score
52
Location
Atlanta
Well went to lowes and got a variety of black pipe sections and Ts and an elbow. Looks like ill have to order the needle valves it doesn't look like anyone carries them locally.
 
OP
G

gifty74

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
374
Reaction score
49
Location
Lancaster, PA
Looks like ill have to order the needle valves it doesn't look like anyone carries them locally.
I've been reading a good bit about people having burner issues, especially the larger BG burners and high pressure propane. Are you sure needle valves will do what you want? I'm not sure how most people are controlling them, but they can be tricky to dial in on some rigs. I use a gas ball valve on my smaller BG with natural gas, and that works well. I just don't know, maybe a needle valve is the way to go, just thought I'd pose the question.
 

sweetcell

Protruding Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
5,602
Reaction score
1,386
Location
North Bend, WA
needle valves are more precise and offer more control that ball valves. i highly recommend them. i have both ball valves (see my HD link above) and needle valves. i use the ball valve as on/off only, and control flame height with the needles.

i had to order the needle valves online, on ebay if i remember correctly. for the HD ball valves, only one store in DC had them. might be best to order them online and have them sent to your local HD.
 

sweetcell

Protruding Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
5,602
Reaction score
1,386
Location
North Bend, WA
that stuff looks fine. using strut is way overkill (that's why we do it, hehehehe...) so anything will work.

the $2.20 stuff is galvanized, i'd go with that over the $1.74 which appears to be painted green. the green stuff is heavier/thicker/stronger (12 gauge, vs. the galvanized's 14 GA) but 14 is still way more than needed unless you're doing 100+ gallon batches.

those are really low prices. how much is shipping?

edit: woa, strainless:
http://www.mayerelectric.com/itemDetailFilterPH.action?codeId=1063948
http://www.mayerelectric.com/itemDetailFilterPH.action?codeId=1063949
http://www.mayerelectric.com/itemDetailFilterPH.action?codeId=1075618
http://www.mayerelectric.com/itemDetailFilterPH.action?codeId=1075619
http://www.mayerelectric.com/itemDetailFilterPH.action?codeId=1073097

edit#2: those prices are per foot... hence the need to order by increments of 10, since they come in 10 foot pieces. took me a minute to figure that out. why they don't just list then at $74/piece, instead of "$7.4000/each + 10 minimum", is beyond me. anyhoo, some prices on stainless are better than McMaster & strutchannelfittings, some aren't.
 

dipole

Active Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
39
Reaction score
4
that stuff looks fine. using strut is way overkill (that's why we do it, hehehehe...) so anything will work.

the $2.20 stuff is galvanized, i'd go with that over the $1.74 which appears to be painted green. the green stuff is heavier/thicker/stronger (12 gauge, vs. the galvanized's 14 GA) but 14 is still way more than needed unless you're doing 100+ gallon batches.

those are really low prices. how much is shipping?
OK great! I might do a SS rig then!

I'm not sure about shipping prices, I know they have stores all over the South, this one is only 10 min from my house.
 

hyperboarder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
126
Reaction score
6
Location
Meridian
FWIW I went with 12 gauge on mine, I think 14 gauge would bow a bit more but yeah, probably plenty strong.
 
Top