Did a saison and it's been 3 weeks and was fermenting fine until over a week it's been stalled at 1030. I used WYEAST 3724 and fermented at 80F. I'm worried about this since I need it soon so I pitched some US05. It's a 38 gallon batch OG around 1066. Need help. This seems common but does it take over a week to start again?
my Saison has stalled at 1.030
- Thread starter Pdaigle
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catdaddy66
Well-Known Member
I haven't used that yeast before so I can only compare apples and oranges, but Belle Saison and Wy3711 are the great whites of sugar chomping! I have never had a batch fail to reach 1.005 or lower. Someone may be able to give better feedback on your yeast.
Stalled fermentations suck...
Stalled fermentations suck...
it's pretty famous for stalling although I've never experienced it. generally you let it get warm to avoid this. I would have warmed and shook it before adding more yeast.
if it don't work then you could bring in the big guns of a diastricus yeast like French saison wlp or as mentioned above. that will finish any arguments... but yeah it's a common problem I think, might even be on their website.
HausBrauerei_Harvey
Well-Known Member
I haven't had this issue but I've read before a good method in this situation is to make another starter which is half DME wort and half the 1.030 beer from the carboy, then pitch that entire starter volume into the beer when the starter is at high krausen.
Seriously?
How would you feel about making an adequately sized starter of Belle Saison or WY3711 and pitch that at high krausen? It may still take a few weeks to get it down to low singles, though, even at 80F. Or brew a good sized batch with Belle Saison or 3711, wait for high krausen, then add half your WY3724 batch to that. Repeat for the 2nd half.
FWIW, WY3726 is similar to 3724, but with none of it's quirks. I think it's available year round now, so I'd use that next time, instead.
3711 is a beast, but if used singly, it's a bit lackluster, IMO. Belle Saison has much more character, but some people hate it, not sure why.
Wyeast's website says it is common to stick around 1.035 and just raise the temp to 90F to get it going again. Pitching US 05 kinda throws a wrench in that plan as it gets pretty foul at 90F.
Given what you have, IslandLizard's plan would be best.
Given what you have, IslandLizard's plan would be best.
I did raise the temp but still was stuck there for a week.
Or Brett it out. That will still tie up your fermentor for a few months to get her going. And if you're not careful she may start owning your brewery.
Still no sign at all, nothing?
no sign...stuck at 1.030ish
From what I remember reading about that yeast you'd need to start ramping up the temps slowly and steadily to keep her interested. A slight drop in temps could make her stall out at any point. She may also be pressure sensitive, so that could also be an issue.
As others mention, 3724 if notorious for slowing down at 1.030ish and taking up to 6 weeks to fully ferment out. Personally, I would ride it out and then harvest the yeast slurry. On the second go-around, after acclimatizing to your brewery, that stuff is a beast. It'll ferment through any batch as fast as or faster than 3711/Belle.
Personal experience? OP said it hasn't budged for a week. Is there indeed hope?
I too heard it behaving much better on subsequent pitches.
On a side note, I had S-04, a double, properly rehydrated pitch in well-aerated 5 gallons of a 1.090 Old Ale stall on me at 1.030. Whatever I did, I could not resuscitate the fermentation for 2 weeks, no gravity change. This was for a club barrel project, where the others had FGs of 1.014-1.020. We added it to the barrel, with the others, no problem there.
Yep, its what happened to me last time I used a fresh 3724 pack. I kept that same strain going for over a year and it was an absolute monster. Sadly, I had to toss it a few months ago as it had developed a ring around the lid I didn't like the look of (likely just O2 exposure). I'll be buying a fresh pack soon, what with the heat here.
GoeHaarden
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Forgive me for asking, but how did you measure your gravity?
Everytime I see 1.030 it makes me think refractometer...
Everytime I see 1.030 it makes me think refractometer...
no a hydrometer
GoeHaarden
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I was hoping it was that simple, but kind of figured as much since you're brewing 38 gallons. Carry on...
day_trippr
The Central Scruuuutinizer
I had the same thought wrt uncorrected refractometer reading, so you weren't alone 
I'm pretty sure I've read that it's entirely common for 3724 (and other saison strains) to run so far, stall out, then take off again with time and on occasion the addition of a bit more warmth...
Cheers!
I'm pretty sure I've read that it's entirely common for 3724 (and other saison strains) to run so far, stall out, then take off again with time and on occasion the addition of a bit more warmth...
Cheers!
I guess it's worth trying, the OP doesn't have much to lose at this point. He did pitch some US-05 trying to get her to finish out with that, so that could become interesting.
I've finished Saisons in the high 80s, but never pushed them farther. But reports have been generally positive in the higher ranges.
devils4ever
Well-Known Member
I had the same issue. Raise the temperature as best you can and wait. It WILL finish!
Still stuck at 1030. I even pitch 3 pack of us05 and nothing is moving still
I like the idea of pitching 3724 and raising to 90f. Sounds like a lot more funky yeast character than 3711 alone. I'm due for another saison and I have some 3724 slurry from a dubbel that never quite got there. Thanks for the thread!
if the 05 isn't doing anything at all it's likely you got a higher concentration of complex sugars which would confirm my earlier suggestion of throwing in some diastricus. it will be to style and will eat the sugar for sure. I would say youre risking infection by hanging about at this point.
pinchegil
Strangedog Brewing
3724 needs to be fermented at 90. There is a quote from wyeast on the forums. You have hit the infamous stall, I pitch at 90 and keep at 90, raise the temp 8 to 10 week stalls are not uncommon with this yeast. The finished product will be awesome. Even at 90 I have seen 2 week stall, always around 1.03
devils4ever
Well-Known Member
Patience!
I raised it but my fermenter doesn't seem to go much higher than 80F. It's been stuck at 1030 for 2 weeks now
what is diastricus? never heard and when I google nothing comes up only this post
thx for replying
It's normal for this yeast.
If you're in a hurry, hit it with Belle Saison or 3711 to reach terminal gravity quickly. US05 won't do it, because it'll stop short somewhere around 80% attenuation whereas your 3724 will, eventually, kick back into gear and take it to 90%. If you happen to be bottling the final product, this becomes a problem in the form of bottle bombs. For this reason, it's important to make sure it gets down to 3724 FG, either by waiting it out or forcing it down quickly. If you have the time, I would wait.
if I pitch 3711 how long do you think it will be done? I don't have much time left
It's spelled diastaticus. It's a type of yeast capable of fermenting complex sugars that other yeasts cannot. If you mashed a little high, your wort could have a lot of those sugars. When brewing dry styles like saison, I like to mash for 90 minutes at 148f to break down the complex sugars into simpler ones and use a diastaticus strain like 3711 to take the FG down as far as possible.what is diastricus? never heard and when I google nothing comes up only this post
Just a few days.
secondbase
Well-Known Member
On the topic of Diastaticus, 3724 was found to be diastaticus as well. 3711 is also diastaticus but will ferment out very quickly and indiscriminately. 3724 is worth the wait if you keep it warm and let it do its thing. WAY more character than 3711.
postalbunny
Well-Known Member
wy3724, seeing the same issue... pitched at 70 and let free-rise to 80-85 for two weeks. Had a pretty active fermentation (krausen over lid/headspace). Hit 1.034 and pretty much stalled out... bumped it to 90degF with a belt, still barely moving. I can see tiny bubbles around the carboy, so there is some activity. but it's slow... 3 days at 90degF and only down 1 point of gravity.
Considering bumping it to 95 to see if it'll pick up. I just don't want to pick up any fusel/nail polish of flavors. Curious how everyone else's turned out. I could also drop a stir bar in and use a magnet to break lose the cake. I just don't think that kind of meddling should be necessary.
Considering bumping it to 95 to see if it'll pick up. I just don't want to pick up any fusel/nail polish of flavors. Curious how everyone else's turned out. I could also drop a stir bar in and use a magnet to break lose the cake. I just don't think that kind of meddling should be necessary.
I luuurv pitching 3711+3724 together, great flavor and great performance.
I pitched 3724 into 1.060 saison wort and it is super slow. Saw good krausen in hours and dropped to 1030 in a few days and then over the last 15 days it has slowly worked its way to 1.015. I don't know how long it's cool to leave it there in primary, but I think I am waiting this out. It sounds like I have been lucky that it keeps chugging along slowly at like 75-80 degrees, which is the warmest spot in my house.
It tastes awesome so far. Good luck, hope yours turns out good postalbunny.
It tastes awesome so far. Good luck, hope yours turns out good postalbunny.
First, while it's still fermenting you don't want to remove it off the yeast.
Second, secondaries don't cure anything, but may likely cause oxidation and infections. Just leave in primary until ready to package. It may stay on the yeast for 3 months if need be. If longer, yeah think about using a secondary or better, age in a sealed keg protected under CO2.
You should save (some) the yeast cake and brew another one and pitch 1/4 of the total cake. That yeast performs much better on subsequent rounds. I like its flavor, it's worth the wait.
Or use WY3726 instead, which is very similar without the crazy semi-stalling antics.
ChuckS1
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Too late for you this time, but next time take a look at this Guide to Saisons and Saison Yeasts by Drew Beechum. I followed it when I did my last saison using 3724 and it did not stall, plus I didn't have to ferment at crazy high temps.
postalbunny
Well-Known Member
Yup,i got impatient and pitched some 3711 on top... the cell count for 5g at 1.030 matches 100b that are in the packet. It was still going, just less than a point a day. I could see signs of active fermentation;i just don't have patients to wait 2 more weeks for it to finish. I got a taste, and agree this will be great with 3711 ... prob better than 3724 by itself.
I head read the article ChuckS1 refers too.. just didn't want to try open fermentation in my bathroom (unused bathtub is where this one is fermenting). I'm not sure which i'd prefer, risk of open fermentation or just pitching 3711 + 3724 next time. I had a batch of just 3711 (split batch) so i guess I'll be able to tell what 3724 brought to the party and judge.
I head read the article ChuckS1 refers too.. just didn't want to try open fermentation in my bathroom (unused bathtub is where this one is fermenting). I'm not sure which i'd prefer, risk of open fermentation or just pitching 3711 + 3724 next time. I had a batch of just 3711 (split batch) so i guess I'll be able to tell what 3724 brought to the party and judge.
I'd be more worried about open fermentation in a bathroom, what with all the nasties floating around.
FWIW, I tried open fermenting 3724 and it didn't make any difference for me. Only time. Just my experience with it. The second generation and on ferments like a beast though. It's a finicky yeast that needs to acclimate to your brewing setup. Once it does, there's no holding it back.
