my pours are a mess

[itsratso]

alright, so maybe before I go crazy I can get some help here. I replaced my beer lines for the first time lately in my keezer. I didn't bother to measure how long my old lines were, but they were roughly 10 feet long. I never had any real problem with my pours before, the first beer would be a little foamy but after that, it would pour nice. I have a 3 tap system with a 3 way secondary manifold similar to this one:

https://tinyurl.com/gtraddb

here is the beer line I bought

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B66593O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and here is a youtube video of what happens when I pour:



as you can see, I get nothing but foam. like NO beer in either the lines or the glass. solid foam, and in the line it's mostly empty space with just a little foam. this happens on all three taps, on a variety of different kegs which kind of rules out the kegs or the taps. if I use a balancing calculator it suggests around a 3 1/2 ft. beer line run to balance it. I have tried 3.5 feet, 5', 10 ', hell I even tried running the whole 25 foot run. same results. my beer is at 36F, and the elevation of the taps is minimal, maybe a foot. again I had really no problems with the same setup before. any guesses from anyone? thanx in advance.

 

[EcuPirate07]

Hard to tell from the video but do you have the lines coiled close to the top of the keezer? You want to keep the lines as close to the bottem as you can get to keep them as cool and consistent as possible in reguards to temperature. When the lines warm up they can cause foaming.


Edit:

You said you tried multiple kegs so this may not be the issue, But sometimes the keg post can cause air to get in if not sealed tight, i.e. O rings or just keg post not tight enough.

 

[BGHSmt7]

Is the inside diameter of the hose different in your new hoses? Is the material different? What's your keg pressure and what's the pressure that you're pushing with? Also, is every fitting secure and air-tight?

 

[EcuPirate07]

Is the inside diameter of the hose different in your new hoses? Is the material different? What's your keg pressure and what's the pressure that you're pushing with? Also, is every fitting secure and air-tight?

This too, you can take soapy water in a spray bottle and spray the lines and keg post and if you get bubbles then you have a leak which allows air in.

 

[itsratso]

the 3/16 beer line is the same diameter as before. i carb at different pressures depending on style but average is around 15 psi i guess. i don't see any air leaks and the tank pressure guage isn't going down over time. i pour at around 8-10 psi. i am mystified by this. even the most unbalanced line in the world shouldn't be doing this i would think?

 

[jmcquesten]

alright, so maybe before I go crazy I can get some help here. I replaced my beer lines for the first time lately in my keezer. I didn't bother to measure how long my old lines were, but they were roughly 10 feet long. I never had any real problem with my pours before, the first beer would be a little foamy but after that, it would pour nice. I have a 3 tap system with a 3 way secondary manifold similar to this one:

https://tinyurl.com/gtraddb

here is the beer line I bought

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B66593O/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

and here is a youtube video of what happens when I pour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BwQtpnnzdY

as you can see, I get nothing but foam. like NO beer in either the lines or the glass. solid foam, and in the line it's mostly empty space with just a little foam. this happens on all three taps, on a variety of different kegs which kind of rules out the kegs or the taps. if I use a balancing calculator it suggests around a 3 1/2 ft. beer line run to balance it. I have tried 3.5 feet, 5', 10 ', hell I even tried running the whole 25 foot run. same results. my beer is at 36F, and the elevation of the taps is minimal, maybe a foot. again I had really no problems with the same setup before. any guesses from anyone? thanx in advance.

This is going to sound ridiculous, but I would think that exact thing would happen if the quick disconnects were on the wrong posts, or the dip tubes were swapped. If it's all foam in the whole line or the line is empty, you could be pushing foam out of the gas post/dip tube by pushing co2 into the liquid post/dip tube.

I'm sure this is not the case in your situation, but I can't think of anything else that would cause all foam/no liquid in the beer line.

 

[BGHSmt7]

Only other thing I can think of is if the beer became so crazy over-carbed, it would do similar. There's a bar close to me that got an over-carbed keg. The pours took forever and they lost a lot of beer to dumping the foam.

 

[jmcquesten]

Also, use mikesoltys.com line length calculator. Any calculator telling you 3.5 ft of line is lying to you (unless it's mikesoltys.com calculator). You said you tried 10 and 25 ft of line, the 25 definitely would have fixed it if it was a short line issue. 15-20 ft of line per tap is not unheard of to really balance a system. But, since you tried the long line, I don't think that's the cause of your foam. The liquid line should be almost all liquid (few bubbles), whether you're pouring or it's just sitting in the line.

 

[itsratso]

bghs, its happening on two different kegs so i doubt it. but its a good thought and ive done dumber things, will check tomorrow.

 

[itsratso]

also your right j. i was using serving pressure (8) rather then kegging pressure. so i should be closer to 10 ft or so, which i've already tried. i think the answer is closer to above that i have done something idiotic and it has nothing to do with pressure. its late but i will check tomorrow.

 

[jmcquesten]

bghs, its happening on two different kegs so i doubt it. but its a good thought and ive done dumber things, will check tomorrow.

Yeah, I've done dumb things too, that's why I said it sounded ridiculous. It's a simple mistake that one might never consider while going crazy chasing down every other possible cause. Let us know when you find the problem. Good luck.

 

[jmcquesten]

also your right j. i was using serving pressure (8) rather then kegging pressure. so i should be closer to 10 ft or so, which i've already tried. i think the answer is closer to above that i have done something idiotic and it has nothing to do with pressure. its late but i will check tomorrow.

Serving pressure vs kegging pressure? Can you explain? Unless you're quick carbonating at like 30 psi for a day, then dropping the pressure, there shouldn't be a difference between kegging pressure and serving pressure. If your system is properly balanced, your pressure should remain the same over the life of the keg. No need to lower pressure to serve, then raise it back up. If you're doing that, that will cause a world of foam problems.

 

[BGHSmt7]

If it is the keg being over-carbed, it's an easy (albeit messy) fix. Just shake the keg, then pull the pressure relief valve, repeat. Make sure that you're not wearing any clothes that you don't mind getting soaked and do it in a place that can be easily washed. I had to do it to a keg once and did it outside next to a hose. Then sprayed the posts with starsan and re-connected to the and pressurized.

 

[PapaO]

It looks like a bad O ring on the dip tube letting Co2 in from the head space.

 

[jan_b19]

Also, use mikesoltys.com line length calculator. Any calculator telling you 3.5 ft of line is lying to you (unless it's mikesoltys.com calculator). You said you tried 10 and 25 ft of line, the 25 definitely would have fixed it if it was a short line issue. 15-20 ft of line per tap is not unheard of to really balance a system. But, since you tried the long line, I don't think that's the cause of your foam. The liquid line should be almost all liquid (few bubbles), whether you're pouring or it's just sitting in the line.

That calculator has one problem tho. The standard value for the flow rate is 10 seconds for a beer (pint). That is a long time.
Especially for systems with a shorter line length (3.5 is a bit too low of course). Because you have less line there is less resistance and the beer flows faster.

The only reason I'm saying this is to remind people that if you change one variable all the rest changes as well. Could shorter line lengths work? Yes absolutely! But you need to give the calculator ALL the data to get an accurate result.

For example. For me it takes about 5-6 seconds to pour a pint. So I have a high flow rate and that means I need very short lines( about 6 ft).

 

[jan_b19]

If it is the keg being over-carbed, it's an easy (albeit messy) fix. Just shake the keg, then pull the pressure relief valve, repeat. Make sure that you're not wearing any clothes that you don't mind getting soaked and do it in a place that can be easily washed. I had to do it to a keg once and did it outside next to a hose. Then sprayed the posts with starsan and re-connected to the and pressurized.

You could also put a plastic or glass sheet in between you and the pressure relief valve so only your arm get's soaked

 

[jmcquesten]

That calculator has one problem tho. The standard value for the flow rate is 10 seconds for a beer (pint). That is a long time.
Especially for systems with a shorter line length (3.5 is a bit too low of course). Because you have less line there is less resistance and the beer flows faster.

The only reason I'm saying this is to remind people that if you change one variable all the rest changes as well. Could shorter line lengths work? Yes absolutely! But you need to give the calculator ALL the data to get an accurate result.

For example. For me it takes about 5-6 seconds to pour a pint. So I have a high flow rate and that means I need very short lines( about 6 ft).

Actually, 10 seconds if fine for a pour. The high flow rate/short lines is what causes the foam. If 10-12 seconds is too long to wait for a draft beer at home, there might be other issues. The goal is NOT to see how fast we can get the beer in the glass, it's to get a proper, non-foamy glass of beer. The fill time should remain 10 seconds or more. You want the beer slowly coming out of the faucet, not blasting out of it.

If you leave that variable alone, the calculator is great. If you have the temperature you want (mine is around 40°F), and the desired carbonation level (pressure required for that level), leave the 10 seconds as it is and use the line length specified by the calculator, your system should be balanced. Any faster (whether higher pressure or shorter lines), and you WILL have foam issues.

 

[itsratso]

j, i carb each keg to whatever pressure is appropriate for the style of beer, then after it reaches full carb set the pressure to my serving pressure which is 8 psi. so after looking at my setup today it appears i only have one keg that is pouring bad. i thought both kegs were affected but today one is pouring ok. so i have a keg problem. i suspect a bad poppet, or as pappa said a seal.

 

[zachattack]

j, i carb each keg to whatever pressure is appropriate for the style of beer, then after it reaches full carb set the pressure to my serving pressure which is 8 psi.

The point is that for the set-it-and-forget-it method, "carbing pressure" and "serving pressure" need to be the same.

If you change the keg pressure, the carbonation will change as well. If you drop the pressure, you'll get foamy pours for a while as the beer offgases CO2 to requilibrate at the lower pressure. If you raise the pressure, the beer will simply absorb more CO2.