My new Recipe? -- Critique Me please

[jonathanh96]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1527983/honey-orange-ipa

I was eating some raw orange blossom honey on some toast and it sparked an idea to make a Honey-Orange beer. What do y'all think?

OPen to any feedback! Thanks!

 

[lumpher]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1527983/honey-orange-ipa

I was eating some raw orange blossom honey on some toast and it sparked an idea to make a Honey-Orange beer. What do y'all think?

OPen to any feedback! Thanks!

There are many out there, and it works. Main thing is if you want the honey taste, use honey malt, not real honey. Most of the real honey taste will ferment out.

 

[jonathanh96]

There are many out there, and it works. Main thing is if you want the honey taste, use honey malt, not real honey. Most of the real honey taste will ferment out.

That's why there's honey malt in there. I did want to add honey as a late addition to boost the gravity and not get that corn sugar taste to it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

OPen to any feedback! Thanks!

• I see it's a 5 gal boil for a 10 gal batch
• consider a 30 min boil
• oats and honey malt are better when mini-mashed
• lots of flavors in the 'whirlpool' hops, honey (?), and adjuncts. Hopefully each will come through and not clash.

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Note that while generic honey will not add flavor. specialty honey can add flavors (if the flavors are not boiled off).

I've done it a couple of times - it's easy-peasy with buckwheat honey, harder with subtle flavors like orange blossom.

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There are a couple of books from the mid-2010s that talk about doing this.

If there is interest, I can offer suggested titles and URLs. I'm pretty much done mentioning, unsolicited, any books (or people) for a couple of weeks - books and 'appeal to authority' is in 'critical condition' due to a recent thread. Maybe ones favorite LLM, when it's not being a gate keeper and not making stuff up, will provide valid links to existing web sites and/or name people in the real world.

 

[fluketamer]

That's why there's honey malt in there. I did want to add honey as a late addition to boost the gravity and not get that corn sugar taste to it.

whats the corn sugar taste? i have found you can add up to 10 percent corn sugar without tasting it. i have heard others up to 15 and even 20 percent corn. it def dries out beer but i cant taste anything from it specifically.

 

[jonathanh96]

• I see it's a 5 gal boil for a 10 gal batch
• consider a 30 min boil
• oats and honey malt are better when mini-mashed
• lots of flavors in the 'whirlpool' hops, honey (?), and adjuncts. Hopefully each will come through and not clash.

---

Note that while generic honey will not add flavor. specialty honey can add flavors (if the flavors are not boiled off).

I've done it a couple of times - it's easy-peasy with buckwheat honey, harder with subtle flavors like orange blossom.

---

There are a couple of books from the mid-2010s that talk about doing this.

If there is interest, I can offer suggested titles and URLs. I'm pretty much done mentioning, unsolicited, any books (or people) for a couple of weeks - books and 'appeal to authority' is in 'critical condition' due to a recent thread. Maybe ones favorite LLM, when it's not being a gate keeper and not making stuff up, will provide valid links to existing web sites and/or name people in the real world.

Yes, I was going to do 5 gallons then dump in 5 gal of water to rapidly cool, then about 170 ish id dump the raw wildflower honey and additional hops. I thought these hops paired with eachother. Should I just go Citra?

And yes I'm a reader!

 

[jonathanh96]

whats the corn sugar taste? i have found you can add up to 10 percent corn sugar without tasting it. i have heard others up to 15 and even 20 percent corn. it def dries out beer but i cant taste anything from it specifically.

Its that funky taste that malt liquors have. I didn't know you could add 10%. Maybe I'll add another lb or so. Just didn't want to ruin it

 

[AlexKay]

My personal opinion is that if you put Citra and Mosaic in there, it’s going to taste like Citra and Mosaic. You won’t notice the orange peel and the coriander, and you certainly won’t notice the honey.

I’ve used both Lotus and Bergamot, as both taste pretty strongly of orange to me. First Gold has a Goldings-with-marmalade vibe to it. Or, if it’s a hassle to find these, Amarillo.

Arguably, with this much honey you will have a braggot.

 

[Kickass]

Delicate honey and subtle orange play well in something like a blonde ale, imo. I’d hate to lose the nuances by blasting it with hops. I think IPA is a bad choice.
I’d also drop the coriander.

 

[mac_1103]

Its that funky taste that malt liquors have.

It's been a very long time since I've had a malt liquor, but what makes you think the funk comes from corn sugar? I tend to doubt that big commercial brewers would use something expensive like corn sugar to boost the ABV of a cheap beverage. Flaked corn or rice, or maybe corn or rice syrup, seem more likely. And more likely to affect the flavor.

Anyway, I agree with the two previous posts. And I would lose the honey and use a lot more honey malt (in a partial mash as already mentioned).

 

[jonathanh96]

It's been a very long time since I've had a malt liquor, but what makes you think the funk comes from corn sugar? I tend to doubt that big commercial brewers would use something expensive like corn sugar to boost the ABV of a cheap beverage. Flaked corn or rice, or maybe corn or rice syrup, seem more likely. And more likely to affect the flavor.

Anyway, I agree with the two previous posts. And I would lose the honey and use a lot more honey malt (in a partial mash as already mentioned).

My personal opinion is that if you put Citra and Mosaic in there, it’s going to taste like Citra and Mosaic. You won’t notice the orange peel and the coriander, and you certainly won’t notice the honey.

I’ve used both Lotus and Bergamot, as both taste pretty strongly of orange to me. First Gold has a Goldings-with-marmalade vibe to it. Or, if it’s a hassle to find these, Amarillo.

Arguably, with this much honey you will have a braggot.

I didnt know those two hops existed. I'm going to see if I can get some from my local HBS.

I can reduce the honey and replace with corn sugar to keep ABV where I want it with a little more malt.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I did want to add honey as a late addition to boost the gravity

You also mentioned orange blossom honey and wild flower honey.

Are you interested in the flavors that those types of honey offer? Or is it just a replacement for sugar?

 

[jonathanh96]

You also mentioned orange blossom honey and wild flower honey.

Are you interested in the flavors that those types of honey offer? Or is it just a replacement for sugar?

I ate the orange blossom honey. I have raw wildflower. I want to try to build a orange blossom beer hence wildflower + orange peel and trying to give citrus based hops a shot and using a light malt to avoid too malty flavors coming through.

I guess the Citra and Mosaic hops were the wrong choice but I want something strong like an ipa with a sweet, orange flavor. Slight honey taste and I want it to be thicker in the mouth like the consistency of honey.

 

[mac_1103]

If you want orange flavor to come through with IPA bitterness levels, then I think the orange is going to have to come from the hops. And it's probably not going to be sweet in any case.

https://beermaverick.com/hops/tag/orange/

I don't think you're going to get thicker mouthfeel in an extract or partial mash beer by adding honey. You need things like proteins and glucans for that.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

build a orange blossom beer

To me, an orange blossom beer would imply that orange blossom honey was used.

@AlexKay mentioned that 30% honey makes this a braggot (or at least a 'honey beer').

With an additional 10% simple sugar, that's well outside the range that most of us have experienced.

If you use decide to honey (other than orange blossom honey), add it earlier in the boil to drive off any flavors that are not orange.

Hop flavors: citrus flavors are not always orange flavor. Search for hops that specific mention orange as a primary flavor.

eta: you may want to consider simplifying the grain bill then adding the flavors you are looking for:
1) start with Pilsen DME and honey malt (for that 'honey' flavor), no corn sugar
2) research ingredients / techniques that could be used to get sweet orange flavor and the desired mouth feel
3) 'fine tune' the recipe (maybe replace some DME with simple sugar to lower FG, etc)

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Mandarina Bavaria hops give me a bold "orange" flavor in a 6% amber ale (85% 2-row, 5% munich, 10% caramel 60, us-05 yeast). Used them at flameout and then dry-hopped.