My Infection (pic)

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Evan!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
107
Location
Charlottesville, VA
I just had to share. I went downstairs just now and the Roeselare pellicle on my Flanders Red had sprouted some awesomely big bubbles. Word. :D

 

McKBrew

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
8,186
Reaction score
43
Location
Hayden
Beautiful. And several new brewers are looking at this post wondering why we are excited about infected beer.
 

chillHayze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
1,593
Reaction score
18
Location
Western PA
Sweet! Any idea how it happened? Did you do anything different on this one from your others?
 

RichBrewer

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
5,900
Reaction score
211
Location
Denver
Boy was I relieved when I saw your carboy! I was afraid when you said a picture of your infection that the photo was going to be a little disturbing...:drunk:
 

Hagen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
392
Reaction score
1
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
slightly OT:

Do you guys ever have a problem wit bugs like Brett popping up where it's not wanted after you've let it in your brewhouse?

I'd like to give it a try sometime, but that scenario keeps playing out in my head.
 

Bokonon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
1,279
Reaction score
16
Location
Tri-Cities, WA
slightly OT:

Do you guys ever have a problem wit bugs like Brett popping up where it's not wanted after you've let it in your brewhouse?

I'd like to give it a try sometime, but that scenario keeps playing out in my head.
I haven't brewed a full batch of a funky beer yet, only a few experiments so far. The fact is that there is brett, lacto, pedio, etc. all around us all the time. So if you follow normal good cleaning and sanitizing practices you should be fine. Often people will dedicate a set of anything plastic to the "dirty" side of their brewhouse, but I'm not sure that is necessary.
 
OP
Evan!

Evan!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
107
Location
Charlottesville, VA
slightly OT:

Do you guys ever have a problem wit bugs like Brett popping up where it's not wanted after you've let it in your brewhouse?

I'd like to give it a try sometime, but that scenario keeps playing out in my head.
Yeah, like bokonon notes, there's bacteria and wild yeast everywhere. You know when the sunlight comes streaming through the window and you can see the dust particles in the air? Each one of those particles is covered with bacteria and wild yeast.

I don't think it'd be going too far, though, to have a dedicated vinyl tube for 'infected' batches, and if you're using a bucket, I'd also dedicate that. But I'm using glass, as you can see in the pic, so it'll be fine.
 

Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
41,296
Reaction score
3,724
Location
"Detroitish" Michigan
Yeah, like bokonon notes, there's bacteria and wild yeast everywhere. You know when the sunlight comes streaming through the window and you can see the dust particles in the air? Each one of those particles is covered with bacteria and wild yeast.

I don't think it'd be going too far, though, to have a dedicated vinyl tube for 'infected' batches, and if you're using a bucket, I'd also dedicate that. But I'm using glass, as you can see in the pic, so it'll be fine.
You still got more cojones than I do hermano! As long as I'm relegated to brewing in my loft I don't have the guts to play with that stuff!

:mug:
 

Hagen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
392
Reaction score
1
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
I completely understand the concept of wild yeast and other bugs floating around the house. My concern was the major population difference between the myriad species of microflora scattered around the average home versus a concentrated, cultivated colony right in and on the equipment.

I imagine a preemptive nuclear strike of sanitizer would take care of it on glass.
 
OP
Evan!

Evan!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
107
Location
Charlottesville, VA
I completely understand the concept of wild yeast and other bugs floating around the house. My concern was the major population difference between the myriad species of microflora scattered around the average home versus a concentrated, cultivated colony right in and on the equipment.

I imagine a preemptive nuclear strike of sanitizer would take care of it on glass.
Well, good cleaning and sanitation practices should be enough to take care of it. The only equipment that will see extended periods of time on it will be the glass carboy and the stopper. Outside of that, nuthin'. This time next year, when I finally keg it, I'll drop some oxyclean and warm water in the carboy and let them soak for a day or so, scrub it, rinse it, and sanitize it. After that, it doesn't matter how concentrated the colony was, they're zapped.
 

avidhomebrewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
2,553
Reaction score
28
I have wanted to brew one using that yeast, let us know (in about 1.5 years!) how it turns out!!!
 

WBC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
2,164
Reaction score
10
Location
La Puente, CA
After going to all the trouble to brew beer I take all the precautions I can to ferment it properly. Can you tell all of us how you think this happened? This is a good thread to discover what not to do as well as what to do in the future to prevent it.
 

EvilTOJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
6,394
Reaction score
68
Location
Portland, OR
WBC, if you scroll up a bit, you'll see that he meant for it to do that. He's making a Flanders Red and pitched some bugs in there.
 

Seawolf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
223
Reaction score
7
Location
Alexandria, VA
Well, good cleaning and sanitation practices should be enough to take care of it. The only equipment that will see extended periods of time on it will be the glass carboy and the stopper. Outside of that, nuthin'. This time next year, when I finally keg it, I'll drop some oxyclean and warm water in the carboy and let them soak for a day or so, scrub it, rinse it, and sanitize it. After that, it doesn't matter how concentrated the colony was, they're zapped.

Does that beer need to sit in the carboy for the entire time? Or can you let it age a bit in the bottles. I've always been curious about brewing a sour ale, as it's one of my favorite beers to drink, and I've been curious about that. I was reading somewhere about using an oak peg to seal the carboy for the year or so it sits in there. Are you doing that? or just using an airlock? Which recipe are you using? I've been looking for a recipe similar to Duchess.
 
OP
Evan!

Evan!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
107
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Does that beer need to sit in the carboy for the entire time? Or can you let it age a bit in the bottles.
It really needs to age in the carboy for that whole period.
I was reading somewhere about using an oak peg to seal the carboy for the year or so it sits in there. Are you doing that? or just using an airlock?
I'm using the oak peg to get a very small, controlled source of oxygen permeation, trying to simulate the effects of aging for a year in a barrel. This will help product the very slight vinegar note in the final product.

Which recipe are you using? I've been looking for a recipe similar to Duchess.
As this is my first sour beer and I don't fancy waiting a year to find out my recipe was off, I went, pound for pound and step for step, with Jamil Zainasheff's recipe. I fermented down to 1.019 with S-05, then racked to secondary and added bugs. This controls the sourness level and eliminates the need for blending, pretty much. People like Rodenbach have a super-sour old batch that they blend with newer, less-sour beer to get their proper sourness level. I don't have that luxury. So I'm going this route. Also, by minimizing the ale yeast cells present in the secondary fermenter, I'm able to cut down on the amount of cannibalizing that the bacteria will do, thus cutting down on the stinkyness, which is less part of this style than it is a lambic.
 

Seawolf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
223
Reaction score
7
Location
Alexandria, VA
As this is my first sour beer and I don't fancy waiting a year to find out my recipe was off, I went, pound for pound and step for step, with Jamil Zainasheff's recipe. I fermented down to 1.019 with S-05, then racked to secondary and added bugs. This controls the sourness level and eliminates the need for blending, pretty much. People like Rodenbach have a super-sour old batch that they blend with newer, less-sour beer to get their proper sourness level. I don't have that luxury. So I'm going this route. Also, by minimizing the ale yeast cells present in the secondary fermenter, I'm able to cut down on the amount of cannibalizing that the bacteria will do, thus cutting down on the stinkyness, which is less part of this style than it is a lambic.[/QUOTE]

Did you pitch an entire smack pack of Roeselare? I only have 5 gallon carboys, and it worries me to add all that yeast with such little head room. It kind of looks like you used a 6.5 gallon carboy, no? Sort of a dumb question, but where can I find an oak peg?
 
OP
Evan!

Evan!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
107
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Did you pitch an entire smack pack of Roeselare? I only have 5 gallon carboys, and it worries me to add all that yeast with such little head room. It kind of looks like you used a 6.5 gallon carboy, no? Sort of a dumb question, but where can I find an oak peg?
Yeah, I used a whole activator pack. Blowoffs don't always happen though...and as you can see, I fermented with straight ale yeast first, then racked to secondary and added the bugs there. If I were you, I'd get a bigger carboy. Better Bottle is the way to go these days, as the glass carboy manufacturer has shut down in Mexico and prices are doubling. Anyway, the pellicle from the bacteria that you see in my picture won't produce a blowoff...they don't put out much co2, if any, and the pellicle size is pretty restrained. If I were you and I couldn't get a bigger carboy, I'd just scale down my batch size, actually...

You can find oak dowels like that at Lowes/Home Depot. I brought my rubber stopper along when I bought the dowel so I knew which size would fit.
 

Seawolf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
223
Reaction score
7
Location
Alexandria, VA
I ordered an "oak keg bung" from Northern Brewer for $0.89. Not too shabby! I actually had a little trouble tracking down my Roeselare, but I managed to find some, and I can't wait to infect my red ale! Thanks for your help Evan!. I'll let you know in 18 months how it turns out. How far are you from DC btw? We should do a HBT BBQ/brew day.
 

Beerrific

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
5,537
Reaction score
61
Location
Georgia
I just had to share. I went downstairs just now and the Roeselare pellicle on my Flanders Red had sprouted some awesomely big bubbles. Word. :D


How long did it take your pellicle to form?

I racked mine to secondary last week. I am eagerly awaiting my pellicle so I can join the club.
 

Plan9

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
273
Reaction score
4
Location
Apopka, FL
You can find oak dowels like that at Lowes/Home Depot. I brought my rubber stopper along when I bought the dowel so I knew which size would fit.
So, are you using a drilled stopper, and running a dowel through it, instead of an airlock?
It looks like you dowel runs down into the wort. Is that the case?
 

Dr Vorlauf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
534
Reaction score
2
Location
Lehigh Valley,PA
Did you need to lubricate your wooden shaft when penetrating the bung hole ? If so did you use keg lube or a water based lubricant to make it fit ?

Seriously I am going to start sour beers in 3 - 4 months and cant wait to try this recipe.
 
OP
Evan!

Evan!

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
11,835
Reaction score
107
Location
Charlottesville, VA
How long did it take your pellicle to form?

I racked mine to secondary last week. I am eagerly awaiting my pellicle so I can join the club.
I think it started looking like that, with the big bubbles, after about a month. The bubbles have since disappeared and there's more of a solid milky-moldy thing on there now.

So, are you using a drilled stopper, and running a dowel through it, instead of an airlock?
It looks like you dowel runs down into the wort. Is that the case?
yeah, a drilled stopper...I brought the stopper to Lowes so I could figure out which oak dowel size worked. It runs down into the wort, so the wood wicks up the moisture from the beer and pulls air in from the top.

Did you need to lubricate your wooden shaft when penetrating the bung hole ? If so did you use keg lube or a water based lubricant to make it fit ?

Seriously I am going to start sour beers in 3 - 4 months and cant wait to try this recipe.
No, no need to lubricate, just take it to the store with you when you get the dowel and fit the right one...it should be tight, but not so tight that you need lubricant.

That's what she said.
 

slim chillingsworth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
311
Reaction score
2
Location
Austin Tx
Does that beer need to sit in the carboy for the entire time? Or can you let it age a bit in the bottles.
do not let an infected/wild beer age in bottles. brettanomyces especially will continue to eat until there is almost no sugar left. bottling prematurely can lead to massively overcarbonated beers that can explode.
 

Drunkensatyr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
1,996
Reaction score
19
I need to get a pic of mine up. 7 gallon carboy, 5.5 gallons in it, and all the headspace is full of yummy infection.
 

Saccharomyces

Be good to your yeast...
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
5,438
Reaction score
148
Location
Pflugerville, Texas
Oh man, first time I saw this thread... sweet.

Last night at a fellow homebrewer's party we were discussing how sweet it'd be to split a 10 gallon batch of his oaked bourbon barleywine (Hair of the Dog Fred clone, actually) and use the Roeselare on 5 gallons of it. We were figuring it'd have to sit in the carboy for a good 12-18 months to hit its peak before kegging.

It's not just a beer... it's an experience. :rockin:
 

korndog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
1,119
Reaction score
9
Location
westlake village, ca
Oh man, first time I saw this thread... sweet.

Last night at a fellow homebrewer's party we were discussing how sweet it'd be to split a 10 gallon batch of his oaked bourbon barleywine (Hair of the Dog Fred clone, actually) and use the Roeselare on 5 gallons of it. We were figuring it'd have to sit in the carboy for a good 12-18 months to hit its peak before kegging.

It's not just a beer... it's an experience. :rockin:
Someone in my club did a Roeselare Fred. I haven't tried it though.
 

Plan9

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
273
Reaction score
4
Location
Apopka, FL
Dumb question, but...

Does a souring beer smell?

Meaning, with the oak letting oxygen in, does the room it is aging in smell like soured wort? I want to start one, but I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to store it unmolested for a year. The back of a closet would be good if I'm not going to be smelling it, and thinking about it everyday.
 
Top