My first use of pellet hops.

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Queequeg

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O.K I used pellets for the first time and tried the whirlpool technique I have read about on this site and others. I got a good whirlpool, in fact I couldn't get a better one without it spinning out the kettle.

Came back 40 mins or so and found the wort was only marginally clearer. I took faith and persisted and my faith was not rewarded. I now have a large amount of tub in my fermentor.

So this leads me to ask what to do during fermentation. The fermentation profile calls for a cold crash, so I was thinking of dry hopping in week 2, moving to secondary and colding crashing in week 3 or perhapes moving to secodnary sooner before the dry hopping.

Or should I just leave full alone and let gravity soley do the job? I am somewhat concerned with potential vegatal flavours, at the moment the fermatation is at 18.5 but I will be ramping it up to 21. I not sure the higher temp would be that great with all those hops siting beneath the beer especially for 2-3 weeks.

Advice please, Thanks
 

fartinmartin

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I would do your dry hop after five days (in a hop bag, wieghted) then leave it and no secondary. I would rack off 24 hours before bottling.
 

Culbetron

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The reason people do the whirlpool is not to cause anything to drop out of suspension, but to collect all the protein, grain bits, and hops in the middle of the kettle. That allows you to siphon from the edge where there is less trub. Getting all that stuff to fall out of suspension mostly depends on cooling it well and giving it a bit of time to sit.

So cool rapidly down to pitching temp (60-70f), whirlpool, let it sit for 20 mins, siphon the clear wort off of the edge of the kettle.

As for dry hopping, you can transfer to secondary (if you are worried about how much trub you have in the primary), dry hop, cold crash (if you really need to), then bottle.
 
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Queequeg

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Culbetron I did exactly as you describe. Had a resonable cold break (from 100C to 30 in 10mins, and 30 to 18 in 15 mins), whirlpooled, stood for 40mins and the siphoned from the edge. It didn't work.

I can only think that my brew kettle is too small for whirlpooling to significantly centrifudge the hops and break material to the centre. It didn't help that is was also a very hoppy beer so it had is work cut out.

I future I'll either invest in/make a hop spider or just use hop bags.

What concerns me about this batch is keeping the beer in contact with all that hop material for so long. I am tempted to use my secondary for that very reason, but if its a none issue I skip it and let in settle in the primary.
 

beertroll

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I wouldn't worry about it. You're unlikely to get much of any vegetal character in a couple of weeks.
 

opiate82

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My kettle goes straight into the fermenter, hops/break material and all. Never had any off-flavors that I can detect.
 

DocScott

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You can rest easy and know that the transferred protein and hops from your boil will not cause any vegetal off flavors in your beer. In the future, if you want a cleaner fermenter, siphon through a fine mesh strainer or hop sack when you transfer to your primary vessel. I have found that straining the hot/cold break and boil hops does NOT really change the final clarity.

As far as your schedule goes...rethink it! Do NOT transfer off your yeast until final gravity has been reached. Transferring too early can lead to stalled fermentations or off flavors. Typically, it will take 1-2 weeks to reach final gravity (depending on pitch rates, oxygenation, temperature, gravity, etc) and then since you're striving for clear beer, another few days after terminal gravity is met to let the yeast flocculate.

Dry hop your beer for 3-5 days then package.

For super clear beer, I recommend a 2-4 day cold crash at 34*F and consider a little gelatin to further fine your beer. Biggest help for clear beer is getting good hot/cold break, time to let the yeast work then flocculate and a good cold crash. Hope this helps!
 

DocScott

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oh yeah...and whirfloc! 1/2 tablet with 10 min left in the boil. HUGE difference in clarity!
 
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Queequeg

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Thanks doc, I will probably just stick to a primary since the concensus seems to be that hops in the primary isn't a problem. I am going to cold crash though and will try the gelatine.

Thanks
 

DrWill

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So cool rapidly down to pitching temp (60-70f), whirlpool, let it sit for 20 mins, siphon the clear wort off of the edge of the kettle.
Not to go off too wildly, but you're whirlpooling after chilling? I've never encountered this before on either a homebrew or pro scale. We use whirlpool hop additions that rely on close to boiling temps during the whirlpool and chill after, which helps prevent hop material from clogging the chiller.
 
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Queequeg

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Normally when using an immersion chiller I pretty sure you chill first then whirlpool
 

DrWill

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Queequeg said:
Normally when using an immersion chiller I pretty sure you chill first then whirlpool
Interesting. I certainly never whirlpooled after chilling when I used an immersion chiller. If you're careful there should be no problem, just new to me.
 

bja

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Not to go off too wildly, but you're whirlpooling after chilling? I've never encountered this before on either a homebrew or pro scale.
Your definition of whirlpooling must be vastly different than everyone elses.
 

DrWill

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bja said:
Your definition of whirlpooling must be vastly different than everyone elses.
Yep. That must be it.

Of course, I guess all the people talking about whirlpool hop additions don't count.
 

bja

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Yep. That must be it.

Of course, I guess all the people talking about whirlpool hop additions don't count.
The OP did a whirlpool to collect all the protein and hops in the middle of the kettle. This is done after chilling.

Nothing was said about whirlpool hop additions.
 

DrWill

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bja said:
The OP did a whirlpool to collect all the protein and hops in the middle of the kettle. This is done after chilling.

Nothing was said about whirlpool hop additions.
I can only figure you're being intentionally obtuse.
 
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Queequeg

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The OP did a whirlpool to collect all the protein and hops in the middle of the kettle. This is done after chilling.

Nothing was said about whirlpool hop additions.
That is correct
 

te-wa

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OP, i had a similar experience yesterday.
the process: after the boil, i stirred the kettle to get a good whirpooling action - targeting the hot break only.. i let the beer come to rest, then carefully added the immersion chiller. after dropping to 80 degrees, i slowly removed the chiller and then siphoned the wort from the edge into a primary, using a funnel and a mesh colander. i was amazed that much trub was collecting in the colander, so much that i had to rinse (then re-sanitize) it 3 times! it was an american stout, only had 3oz of hops and i did use a whirlfloc. i probably got a full cup of trub after all said and done. the "whirlpooling" didnt seem to have much positive effect.

*80 degrees then added to one gallon of near-frozen water, and topped the primary off with a 2L yeast starter and room temp water. reached 64 degrees w/ this method.
 

bja

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OP, i had a similar experience yesterday.
the process: after the boil, i stirred the kettle to get a good whirpooling action - targeting the hot break only.. i let the beer come to rest, then carefully added the immersion chiller.
So you don't boil your immersion chiller to sanitize it?
 

te-wa

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i dunk it in star-san, then it was added to the wort which was still in the 200 degree range. no infections so far.. ;)
 

WharfRat

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A couple things that helped my whirlpooling help me: first, I personally never got great results until I started letting the whirlpool settle for around 1.5 hours. I use the time to clean my brew stuff, myself, relax, whatever. The time also enabled me to chill initially a bit lower which I think helps stuff settle out that much better.

The other thing for me was a good dip tube setup. The cone of trub is still pretty fluffy and I could easily disturb it when poking down there with a racking came to siphon. Another factor with my dip tube that I like to imagine helps me is that I made mine actually coil around the outside bottom edge of the kettle, and have it end-capped and perforated on its outside-bottom edge. This way, I distribute the flow into the tube in such a way as not to disturb the trub in the middle, and the geometry of the setup acts as a physical barrier to the trub as it settles with the level of the last wort. In a typical 5g batch I get almost 100% crystal clear wort (exception being the first cup or two which clears whatever is already in the tube) and am left with less than half a gallon of liquid and trub in the kettle.

Probably waaay TMI, and I probably could get great results without the elaborate diptube setup, but those are the things I personally changed before I was finally satisfied. My waste has gone down to the point that brewing the same recipes I still am left with surplus wort after filling the fermenter and am still tinkering with my beersmith settings to eliminate that waste.
 

bja

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My waste has gone down to the point that brewing the same recipes I still am left with surplus wort after filling the fermenter and am still tinkering with my beersmith settings to eliminate that waste.
Use that "waste" to make the starter for your next brew.
 

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