My first strong belgian ale

[permo]

I just had to post this, I am so jacked about my brew session today.

I have been planning a BIG belgian beer for a while. I have cultured chimay yeast, brewed a smaller 1.045 OG beer with the yeast with intentions of using the cake for a big beer...etc..etc..

Here is the recipe for the small beer:

8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (60 min) Hops 30.4 IBU
0.25 oz Summit [18.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 10.00 %

The chimay yeast took the 1.045 OG beer down to 1.013....not too bad....I know I underpitched but my main intentions where to use the cake. My samples at bottling tonight tasted great! This will be a crowd pleasing beer for sure...a little spice/character from the yeast..but super smooth. Very nice.

The recipe for the big beer was part of my first order from Ed at brewmasterswarehouse.com, and is as follows:

15.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.92 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 5.13 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.56 %
0.50 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 2.56 %
0.25 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.28 %
0.25 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 1.28 %
2.00 oz Williamette [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 21.9 IBU
1.00 oz Argentine Cascade [3.70 %] (15 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
1.00 oz Argentine Cascade [3.70 %] (5 min) Hops 1.7 IBU
2.00 lb Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 10.26 %


I was only expecing %70 efficieny or so considering the large gain bill. I don't know what Ed did, but he has his grind dialed in. I mashed at 146 for 30 minutes and 150 for 60 minutes. 1.25 quarts per pound in the mash and 5 gallons sparge water. I added the candi sugar at 5 minutes.

I ended up racking 5.5 gallons of 1.100 wort on the chimay cake tonight! Wow, this is going to be a whopper. I was expecting 1.90 or so...I couldn't believe the measurement when I took it. I hope I didn't underpitch...I aerated the crap out of it and am just waiting for fermentation to start up!

I am not sure what to do...I have never had a beer this big before.....I am going to let the first 3-4 days go at 65-68 degrees and then jack it up into the mid 70's......I hope I get decent attenuation.

 

[RLinNH]

Sounds to me like you are on your way to a grat tasting Belgian Beer. Personally, I have had the best outcome when it coms to fermentation temps with these beers. Like you said, raise th temp into th Mod 70's. I wouldn't wait 3 days though. I'd wait mor like 36 hours, then start ramping up the temp slowly toward the mid 70's.

 

[EvilGnome6]

I wouldn't wait 3 days though. I'd wait mor like 36 hours, then start ramping up the temp slowly toward the mid 70's.

Agreed. I pitch my Belgians low (mid to high 50s) and let it free rise to the mid to high 70s. It usually takes 24-36 hours and I get great flavor and attenuation from the yeast.

Since you've pitched onto a cake, you'd probably be fine just letting it warm up right away. The propagation phase is when you want to keep it cooler and you're skipping some of that.

 

[permo]

holy blowoff batman! I woke up this morning to a huge amount of krausen/foam being spewed from the fermenter and a nice vigorous fermentation. All appears to be very well at this point. I do have a few questions:

When should i ramp up temps? Fermentation appears to be going very well right now...maybe tomorow morning after 36 hours? Maybe tonight after 24 hours? This beer is large and I sure want to encourage attenuation and get some of that nice chimay flavor.

Assuming this beer attenuates to 1.030 or lower, I am going to be pushing %10 ABV....I plan on racking to secondary for a month and then bottling.......do you think I should possibly save some of the yeast from this fermentation and add it to the bottling bucket so I have enough yeast to bottle ferment/carbonate? I am assuming after this fermentation and sitting on %10 ABV for a month, the yeast may not be too happy. But also, will the yeast I wash from this fermentation even be viable after fermenting such a big beer?

 

[Freezeblade]

It should carbonate itself fine. I did a westy 12 clone awhile back that ended at over 10% abv. and even after 2 months from pitching and a rack into secondary it still bottle-carbed itself up fine.

also, I wouldn't re-use the yeast from a beer this big, even with washing.

 

[permo]

Update:

I have ramped the fermentation temperature up to 75 degrees or so. This is by far the strongest most vigorous fermentation I have ever seen. I have so much krausen/foam coming out of the blowoff tube...I hope I end up with 5 gallons of beer by the time it is all done!

Regardless, it looks like I have some happy,healthy, yeast on board. I will give them 3 weeks at this temperature to see what they can do....I hope this hog goes below 1.025...but I think that may be asking too much of the yeast.

 

[RLinNH]

Update:

I have ramped the fermentation temperature up to 75 degrees or so. This is by far the strongest most vigorous fermentation I have ever seen. I have so much krausen/foam coming out of the blowoff tube...I hope I end up with 5 gallons of beer by the time it is all done!

Regardless, it looks like I have some happy,healthy, yeast on board. I will give them 3 weeks at this temperature to see what they can do....I hope this hog goes below 1.025...but I think that may be asking too much of the yeast.

Don't be surprised if she gets down around 1016-1012.

 

[permo]

Don't be surprised if she gets down around 1016-1012.

1.012 would be %88 attenuation, that would be crazy......I would love it, but it would be crazy. %11.5 ABV too...at that attenuation level. That would be great. Maybe I created a monster.

 

[EvilGnome6]

Belgian yeasts can give you some crazy high attenuation, especially if you give them simple sugars, warmth and plenty of time. I had a 1.091 Belgian Dark Strong that finished at 1.005. That's almost 95%. It got there with a 1L starter and 3 lbs. of sugar fed to the primary at the end of the first week. The first few weeks were really active and it took 6 weeks total to finish.

 

[permo]

Belgian yeasts can give you some crazy high attenuation, especially if you give them simple sugars, warmth and plenty of time. I had a 1.091 Belgian Dark Strong that finished at 1.005. That's almost 95%. It got there with a 1L starter and 3 lbs. of sugar fed to the primary at the end of the first week. The first few weeks were really active and it took 6 weeks total to finish.

The first 24 hours of this fermentation were just plain violent! Now finally foam has stopped comming out of the blowoff tube. Fermentation is still quite active, and chugging along bigtime. It looks like a whirlpool with a bunch of chunks floating in it inside the fermenter!

If I only have two pounds candi sugar in teh recipe, do you think it may be a good idea to feed some to the fementer after the end of the first week to encourage attenuation?

It is obvious that this beverage is going to be extremely alcoholic, it could end up pushing %13 if I add more sugar....is that even something that I should be considering acceptable for a strong dark belgian ale? I just want to be sure it is palletable.


Also, after you six week fermentation did you rack to secondary or just go to the bottle with it?

 

[EvilGnome6]

TIf I only have two pounds candi sugar in teh recipe, do you think it may be a good idea to feed some to the fementer after the end of the first week to encourage attenuation?

I wouldn't add anymore sugar. As is, I think you're already pushing the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. I've just had better attenuation with incremental feeding than I have adding sugar to the boil but since you pitched on a cake it shouldn't matter.

It is obvious that this beverage is going to be extremely alcoholic, it could end up pushing %13 if I add more sugar....is that even something that I should be considering acceptable for a strong dark belgian ale? I just want to be sure it is palletable.

I'm not as concerned about the ABV flavor-wise as I am about the yeast crapping out at those levels.

Also, after you six week fermentation did you rack to secondary or just go to the bottle with it?

I always do a few weeks in secondary and pitch fresh yeast at bottling time. I'm in the minority on this forum when it comes to secondaries and repitching so it's your call. I just think my beers turn out clearer and better when I give them a little time to settle out and I've had too much inconsistency when relying on the old yeast to carbonate. Especially with big Belgians.

 

[passedpawn]

I wouldn't add anymore sugar.

Hot and alcoholic is not a pleasant thing. I know... I doubled the candi sugar addition to a Belgian Dubbel and could kick myself right now.

I ... pitch fresh yeast at bottling time. I'm in the minority on this forum when it comes to ... repitching

I guess I'm in that minority too. I'd repitch in anything over 10%.

 

[permo]

now, about 36 hours after pitching on the yeast cake, after an amazingly turbulent 24 hours of fermentation with huge blowoff, things have really settled down. Maybe 1/2 inch of thick krausen and slow, but consistent bubbling and fermentation taking place. I am a little concerned that things are dying down to quickly. Is this normal? A short period of rediculous fermentation followed by a reduction? I am assuming this level of fermentation will remain for a week or two....but I have never brewed something this strong before.

 

[EvilGnome6]

It will go how it goes. Here is how my 1.091 went:

Week 1: 1.011
Week 2: 1.009
Week 3: 1.007
Week 4: 1.006
Week 5: 1.005
Week 6: 1.005

As you can see, it was fast and furious the first week but took a long time to finish out. Be patient and let the hydrometer tell you when it is done.

 

[permo]

It will go how it goes. Here is how my 1.091 went:

Week 1: 1.011
Week 2: 1.009
Week 3: 1.007
Week 4: 1.006
Week 5: 1.005
Week 6: 1.005

As you can see, it was fast and furious the first week but took a long time to finish out. Be patient and let the hydrometer tell you when it is done.

So you let the beer sit in primary for six weeks to finish out? Did you have to rouse the yeast or anything of that nature?

 

[joety]

It will go how it goes. Here is how my 1.091 went:

Week 1: 1.011
Week 2: 1.009
Week 3: 1.007
Week 4: 1.006
Week 5: 1.005
Week 6: 1.005

As you can see, it was fast and furious the first week but took a long time to finish out. Be patient and let the hydrometer tell you when it is done.

You got a 1091 down to 1005????? Holy crap. What yeast and how much sugar?

 

[EvilGnome6]

So you let the beer sit in primary for six weeks to finish out? Did you have to rouse the yeast or anything of that nature?

Nope. Didn't rouse the yeast. After the fast and furious initial phase, it just kept slowly bubbling. That's happened to me several times with high gravity Belgians.

 

[EvilGnome6]

You got a 1091 down to 1005????? Holy crap. What yeast and how much sugar?

The yeast was Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II. I chilled the wort to 60F and pitched a 1 liter starter on brew day. Then I added 3 lbs of cane sugar (boiled in 6 cups of water) to the primary at the end of the first week (when it was 1.011). It ate all the sugar and then some within a week and kept going, and going, and going...

No special tricks other than the incremental feeding and giving it plenty of time. Temperature got to about 75F during the peak of fermentation and it sat around 70F the rest of the time. After that, two weeks in the secondary to clear.

The sample on bottling day was remarkable. Totally and completely smooth. No cider flavor or alcohol burn going down. Just take a swig and about 30 seconds later a wave of warmth come up and knocks you in the back of the head. I've sampled a few bottles since then while waiting for it to carb up and it's getting even better.

 

[Bensiff]

Yup, Belgian yeast are hard workers, you should push down to the teens just fine for a nice dry to form beer.

 

[permo]

Wow, I just can't beleive that it is going to attenuate so well! I am really looking forward to it....it is going to be hard for me to wait a week to take a gravity measurement!

 

[joety]

The yeast was Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II. I chilled the wort to 60F and pitched a 1 liter starter on brew day. Then I added 3 lbs of cane sugar (boiled in 6 cups of water) to the primary at the end of the first week (when it was 1.011). It ate all the sugar and then some within a week and kept going, and going, and going...

No special tricks other than the incremental feeding and giving it plenty of time. Temperature got to about 75F during the peak of fermentation and it sat around 70F the rest of the time. After that, two weeks in the secondary to clear.

The sample on bottling day was remarkable. Totally and completely smooth. No cider flavor or alcohol burn going down. Just take a swig and about 30 seconds later a wave of warmth come up and knocks you in the back of the head. I've sampled a few bottles since then while waiting for it to carb up and it's getting even better.

Ok, so when you do post-boil additions, I assume some extra math is involved to calc your OG?

 

[permo]

Ok, so when you do post-boil additions, I assume some extra math is involved to calc your OG?

that is correct, the sugar is %100 fermentable. I think a pound added to five gallons raises your OG like 7-8 points. What you can do is just go into beersmith, or whatever software you have, and add a pound to your recipe and see how many points in raises the OG projection. There you have it.

 

[EvilGnome6]

Ok, so when you do post-boil additions, I assume some extra math is involved to calc your OG?

I work up the recipe in BeerSmith and jot down what the OG will be without the sugar on brew day. Then I add the sugar to the recipe to know what the total OG is. A pound of table sugar adds about .009 points to a 5 gallon batch.

 

[permo]

well, tonight I was alarmed at the apparent lack of activity in the fermenter. THere was still yeast in suspension but I had no krausen and not much C02 being released. If I wouldn't have known better I would have thought the beer is finished. I took a hydro reading and I am at 1.060 or so, so there has been some attenuation, but I am not even half way there and the yeast seem pooped out.

I am going to raise the temp from 74 to 78 over the night and see if I can make something happen.....if I haven't attenuated more after another few days I am going to have to repitch or something. I am making a contigency chimay yeast starter just in case.

 

[permo]

well, tonight I was alarmed at the apparent lack of activity in the fermenter. THere was still yeast in suspension but I had no krausen and not much C02 being released. If I wouldn't have known better I would have thought the beer is finished. I took a hydro reading and I am at 1.060 or so, so there has been some attenuation, but I am not even half way there and the yeast seem pooped out.

I am going to raise the temp from 74 to 78 over the night and see if I can make something happen.....if I haven't attenuated more after another few days I am going to have to repitch or something. I am making a contigency chimay yeast starter just in case.

I now have about 1/4 inch of krausen and some definite fermentation going on, but definetly not fast and furious. I wonder what happened? the yeast was just going to to town, and then stopped. This kind of stinks, I had high hopes for this one.

 

[RLinNH]

I now have about 1/4 inch of krausen and some definite fermentation going on, but definetly not fast and furious. I wonder what happened? the yeast was just going to to town, and then stopped. This kind of stinks, I had high hopes for this one.

Sloooow Down Grass Hopper. Paint Da Fence, and all that ****. Seriously, didn't you see Evilgnome's post? 6 Weeks to finish up one of his Belgians. What you have in that Primary of yours is an Ass Kicking Belgian Yeast. Give her time before you go thinking that the yeast has pooped out.

And with all this Belgian talk, you guys have mne thinking about brewing up my Begian Golden Strong...

 

[RLinNH]

What, we can't say Sh#t? When did this place get so Damned PC? Whose Feelings got hurt?

"Sorry about the threadjack permo. "

 

[permo]

Sloooow Down Grass Hopper. Paint Da Fence, and all that ****. Seriously, didn't you see Evilgnome's post? 6 Weeks to finish up one of his Belgians. What you have in that Primary of yours is an Ass Kicking Belgian Yeast. Give her time before you go thinking that the yeast has pooped out.

And with all this Belgian talk, you guys have mne thinking about brewing up my Begian Golden Strong...

I know, I need to find a nice spot that is 75 degrees in my house that is out of sight so I forget about it for 6 weeks. It is chugging along slowly but surely...it just suprised me that it went so fast for the first .40 points and then hit the breaks. I have never brewed a belgian before so this is interesting for sure.

What alarms me is how his dropped .80 in the first week..I guess mine is only a few days old so as long as I have signs of life I am leaving it alone.

Update:

******Well, I just measured 73 degrees at the fermenter and I have a nice 1/2 inch krausen going on. I am hoping to raise the temp to upper seventies tonight. I am not sure what happened, I went from pretty much no fermentation and a flat/clear surface of the beer...to what appears to be a nice healthy fermentation in a day, with a 5 degree or so increase.

Turns out the belgian yeast must like warm temps...heck it must need them. *********

Slow and steady wins the race I guess... I am just used to nottingham yeast and that stuff finishes quick and dry.

 

[FxdGrMind]

Permo.
Nice work on the Belgian. Relax, 5 more weeks and you are there!

It will go in a "FLASH"!!!

I've done 2 B-S's, the first was awsome and the 2nd is going to keg this w/e. Belgian Strong's are dangerous in the keg.... Just warning you now.

Biggest thing is give it time! Don't hurry it. Try and keep the temp constant, the fruity fermentation should smell fantastic!

 

[permo]

Permo.
Nice work on the Belgian. Relax, 5 more weeks and you are there!

It will go in a "FLASH"!!!

I've done 2 B-S's, the first was awsome and the 2nd is going to keg this w/e. Belgian Strong's are dangerous in the keg.... Just warning you now.

Biggest thing is give it time! Don't hurry it. Try and keep the temp constant, the fruity fermentation should smell fantastic!

I plan on bottling this one, so I can cellar some and gift some. I am very excited about this beer and the fermentation does smell great! I get plum, raisin, spice type of smell coming from the fermenting....nice and fruity.

I just can't believe how long it is going to take! Patience will be rewarded.

 

[sirsloop]

dude... whats up with the summit hops? A little extreme for belgian isn't it?

 

[permo]

dude... whats up with the summit hops? A little extreme for belgian isn't it?

Not really, when you use less than an ouce in a whole batch, there isn't anything extreme about them.

I think it is almost stupid not to take full advantage of hops like summit for bittering..why use 4 ounces of EKG at 90 minutes one a single ounce of summit will do...the flavor and aroma is all boiled off in the end.

Also, in my strong belgian I didn't use any summit. I used willamete and argentine cascade.....mmmmmmm

 

[sirsloop]

I guess its belgian and you can put in whatever hops you want. I mean there are belgian IPA's on the market! I typically stick to noble or english hops for my belgians. Usually the amount of hops needed is very small, even with very low AA varieties. Summit is a west coast american variety correct? Its pine, citrus, and grapefriut?

It would be interesting to taste a side by side comparison in something like a wit. .5oz Summit bittering next to like 1.5oz EKG Bittering, no aroma hops. I'd bet there's a noticeable difference.

 

[permo]

I guess its belgian and you can put in whatever hops you want. I mean there are belgian IPA's on the market! I typically stick to noble or english hops for my belgians. Usually the amount of hops needed is very small, even with very low AA varieties. Summit is a west coast american variety correct? Its pine, citrus, and grapefriut?

It would be interesting to taste a side by side comparison in something like a wit. .5oz Summit bittering next to like 1.5oz EKG Bittering, no aroma hops. I'd bet there's a noticeable difference.

You are correct on the aroma, it is tangerine/grapefruit bigtime. I just tasted the light belgian ale last night that I used summit on, and the hops are not noticable at all.....

Also, I brewed a citrus wheat that used .50 oz summit at 60, .25 oz at 10 and .25 oz at flameout and it turned out wonderfully.

Summit when used in moderation is fantastic, when you overload with it, it can come out onion while the beer is young...but that fades to reveal tangerine later.

I agree with you on the comparision. I had a pound of summit and experimented a lot with it..I found it amazingly powerfull and smooth as a bittering hop.....excellent when used for aroma and dry hopping as well. Do not use more than .50 oz in late boil additions and NO fwh with summit....or you get onion.

 

[permo]

It's been a week since I brewed and pitched. This thing is STILL fermenting like crazy. I have high krausen and the inside of the fermenter looks like a cyclone with crap going all over the place. The fermenter is sitting at 76 degrees and the airlock activity smells nice and fruity! I don't know how long this active of a fermentation can possibly be sustained, but I think this hummer is going to attenuate. There is no way I am going to take a gravity reading until things settle way down!

I have found that the key to this chimay yeast is certainly to keep it warm.....73 and up after pitching. I will be amizingly satisfied if this brew falls below 1.020...that will give me %10.7 ABV or so....craziness. Almost %80 Attenuation.

I am currently stepping up some chimay yeast into a 1 gallon starter I am going to use for a hog of a tripel! no rest for the wicked.

 

[sirsloop]

I brewed a saison like a month ago and its still fermenting. Granted I hit it with Brett B after it slowed a little three weeks ago. I bumped it up to 80F after the brett inoc... its probably bubbling once every 45 seconds now.

 

[permo]

This bad boy is still fermenting. I took a gravity reading i am at 1.025! I tasted it and its a little sweet but tasty! Looks like we are heading down below
1.020! Awesome!

 

[jldesign]

not a thread takeover but with this yeast it was slow and steady for 3 months at 68 degrees. let it ride......let it ride.....

Belgian Caramel Munich Malt 40 0.50 lb
Belgian Aromatic Malt 0.38 lb
Belgian Special B 0.25 lb
UK Pale Chocolate Malt 0.16 lb
Extract - Light Dried Malt Extract 9.00 lb
Sugar - Candi Sugar Dark 1.00 lb
Sugar - Candi Sugar Pale .5lb
grains of paradise additions late in boil, magnum bittering n hallertaur lates.

Wyeast 1388-Belgian Strong Ale

primary was 1 full 1qt yeast cake scoop from the same recipe. blowoff was outstanding and insane started up within 2 hours. OG 1.081+- for a 6 gallon batch. primary for 2 weeks. secondary with yeasty pickup racking now for almost 3 months to the day. first sample tonight with activity but slow activity but some non the less im at 1.010. tasty and nice. probably around 9% give or take.

back to the question if i bottle this now (SHOULD I?) with priming sugar will it carb in another 2-6 months fine? i also heard about using candi sugar/corn to bottle any thoughts? i was planning on a yeast repitch but id have to buy another yeast if i dont need it why bother its tasty as is VERY close to chimay blue id say.

thanks for any info i think it will help all of us new belgian guys
jld

 

[permo]

I am planning on racking mine to secondary after 4 weeks, and letting that sit for two months at about 70 degrees. Hopefully the yeast continues to work and slowly drop it down. I am thinking that if I get this brew below 1.020 I will be amazed and it will be nearing %11 ABV.

Just for fun last night I melted down 8 oz candi sugar in water and added it....those yeast started eating that sugar almost instantly! It was nuts. It only added maybe .004 to my gravity, but it kind of woke the yeast up so I bet it helped drag it down a few more points. I am going to rack to secondary after 4 weeks, this is week #2, and then keep it at 70 degrees for a month. I will then add more chimay yeast, corn sugar and bottle it. I will then store the bottles at 70 degrees until I serve it at thanksgiving to suprise my guests, along with barley wine and strong scotch ale. Lucky bastards.

If I were you, I would use the saming bottling, yeast, sugar priming protocol as I outlined above.

 

[permo]

Well, the yeast is starting to floculate, so I took a reading. I also forgot to mention that I added another half pound of candi sugar to the fermenter...so here are the numbers as they stand.

OG - 1.104
FG = 1.018 (I am quite satisfied and believe it will continue to fall over the next two weeks in primay)

ABV = 11.30 %

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am currently drinking the sample I took for the hydrometer reading and it is DELIGHTFULL. I am so pleased with the performance of this yeast so far, if this things ends at 1.015 I am very happy. I have IPA's that have finished 1.020 and are great.....this is awesome!!

The yeast is rapidly floccing at this point, I wonder if it is even worth keeping in the primary fermenter much more than another week or so....fermentation is certainly nearing the end.

Can the gravity continue to drop even the they yeast has floculated?

I got over %82 attenuation, I can't cry about that for sure.

I just washed/jarred the yeast slurry from a 1 gallon chimay starter...I think it's tripel time!