my first DIPA, inquiries and insight !

[Phastphood17]

Hey! Im new to brewing, and would like to ask a few questions. currently brewing a 5gal DIPA, recipe which i created my own with AI of course. is as stated below:

OG-1.072 (0.008 points short from target OG of 1.080)

est FG- 1.010

MALTS

-5.5kg pale 2-row malt

-0.5kg munich malt

0.3kg caramel malt 40L

HOPS

60mins, 28g Simcoe

15mins, 28g Nelson

5minutes, 14g nectaron and 14g talus

Dry hop- 28g Wai-iti, 28g, 28g motueka, 28g Krush

TEAST- 11g WLP001 California Ale yeast (Dried)
TECHNICAL INGREDIENTS- AMG 300L BREWQ (added during mashing @ 65c), Polyclar brewbrite 2g, at last 15 minutes of boil.

Mashed between 65-67c with 15L of water for 60 mins. followed by a sparge with 13L water. then boiled for 60mins with the hop additions. cooled to 22c and pitched yeast in fermzilla with spunding valve.

My questions:

1. On the 2nd and a half day of fermentation, spunding valve read 0 but as i reliefed pressure it came back up to around 10-15 psi. my krausen was rising up, why did this happen and is there any setbacks here?
2. Would you rather dry hop during primary or wait till primary fermentation is over.
3. How should i go about from here, should i wait for the krausen to settle, then remove pressure, open fermzilla and dry hop. followed by purging the oxygen in fermzilla with co2 or what?

 

[Jag75]

Hey there phastphood , welcome to HBT.

1.) Because of the pressure created from the fermentation added with the process of not letting the co2 exit the fv.

2.) I dry hop a few days before I package.

3.) Have your hops ready , open the top of your fv while running co2 about 2psi. Add your hops , close lid , up the psi and purge a few times.

That's my process. There's more then one way to skin a cat they say. You will try different processes and eventually figure out which one works best for you. Good luck

 

[AlexKay]

There are two main issues with respect to dry hop timing.

First, actively fermenting yeast will change (biotransform) some of the hop oils, so you’ll get different flavors hopping early in the fermentation, as opposed to later. You may prefer one for one hop, and the other for another. But if you’re aiming for control and reproducibility, timing changes the flavor.

Second, if you’re opening the fermenter to dry hop, you’re letting in oxygen that you won’t be able to purge out completely. If you’re earlier in the fermentation, the yeast will more readily gobble up that oxygen, and potentially also metabolize some oxidation products that would otherwise give unpleasant flavors.

I’ve tried a lot of different things, but have now settled on fermenting in one keg, and then doing a closed transfer to a second keg, purged, and loaded with the dry-hop charge. Both kegs need good floating dip tubes with screens.

I’m uncertain what the best advice is for people starting out with hoppy beers. Maybe skip the dry hopping, and see how far late additions and hop stands get you. Maybe add the dry hops at yeast pitch. Either way, you avoid opening that fermenter.

And you didn’t ask about the recipe, but … your grain bill looks solid. In my opinion, though, you’re using way too many hop varietals. Not that this will make it taste bad — there are some good ones in there, and it may end up pretty nice — but whether you like the flavor or not, you’re going to have no idea what worked and what didn’t. You’ll maximize what you learn by using a single aroma hop. If you can’t stand that, then two. (I’m coming up on 500 batches, and have never used more than 3.)

 

[HM-2]

+1 on the "too many varietals" post above. 4 is the max I'll typically use and 3 my default.

I'd also question some of the orderings and timings for your hop additions - not sure what you hope to achieve with a 15 minute Nelson addition rather than using it in the whirlpool or DH, but you're going to lose most of what makes it characteristic.

Based on grist and 60 min addition I assume you're shooting for a West Coast style DIPA.

My personal hopping regiment for a beer if this type would be:

1) About 40 IBU as a pure bittering addition at either 30 or 60 minutes depending on boil length.

2) A small (30g-40g total) 10 minute addition of each your aroma hops.

3) A 75°C whirlpool of at least 5g/L of your aroma hops. So 100-120g or above.

4) An 8g/L or higher dry hop of your aromas; I normally just do a single when I'm a couple of points from FG but I can dry hop oxygen free so don't need to worry as much.



I just kegged an 8% West Coast DIPA and my hop additions were:

30g Columbus LupoMAX at 30m

15g Citra LupoMAX/15g Strata/10g Amarillo LupoMAX at 10m

40g Amarillo LupoMAX/30g Citra LupoMAX/30g Strata 75°C whirlpool for 20m

75g Amarillo LupoMAX/55g Strata/50g Citra dry hop at day 5.

Been on keg for three days and it's great already.

 

[Phastphood17]

Hey there phastphood , welcome to HBT.

1.) Because of the pressure created from the fermentation added with the process of not letting the co2 exit the fv.

2.) I dry hop a few days before I package.

3.) Have your hops ready , open the top of your fv while running co2 about 2psi. Add your hops , close lid , up the psi and purge a few times.

That's my process. There's more then one way to skin a cat they say. You will try different processes and eventually figure out which one works best for you. Good luck

Hello @Jag75 thanks for the reply! I ended up dry hopping during primary. So I opened the fermenter, dumped the hops in and closed it back, though i did not purge the oxygen, but the spunding valve did go back up in PSI.

There are two main issues with respect to dry hop timing.

First, actively fermenting yeast will change (biotransform) some of the hop oils, so you’ll get different flavors hopping early in the fermentation, as opposed to later. You may prefer one for one hop, and the other for another. But if you’re aiming for control and reproducibility, timing changes the flavor.

Second, if you’re opening the fermenter to dry hop, you’re letting in oxygen that you won’t be able to purge out completely. If you’re earlier in the fermentation, the yeast will more readily gobble up that oxygen, and potentially also metabolize some oxidation products that would otherwise give unpleasant flavors.

I’ve tried a lot of different things, but have now settled on fermenting in one keg, and then doing a closed transfer to a second keg, purged, and loaded with the dry-hop charge. Both kegs need good floating dip tubes with screens.

I’m uncertain what the best advice is for people starting out with hoppy beers. Maybe skip the dry hopping, and see how far late additions and hop stands get you. Maybe add the dry hops at yeast pitch. Either way, you avoid opening that fermenter.

And you didn’t ask about the recipe, but … your grain bill looks solid. In my opinion, though, you’re using way too many hop varietals. Not that this will make it taste bad — there are some good ones in there, and it may end up pretty nice — but whether you like the flavor or not, you’re going to have no idea what worked and what didn’t. You’ll maximize what you learn by using a single aroma hop. If you can’t stand that, then two. (I’m coming up on 500 batches, and have never used more than 3.)

Thanks for the in depth reply @AlexKay , I actually ended up Dry hopping with 42g Nectaron and 14g Talus. my initial thought was the more varieties i added the more complex it got so I will try using less hop varieties in my up and coming brews! Also I was hoping to get your insights and maybe how to's on these Hop oils i recently got at BrewAsia 2024.
the pictures inserted is from BarthHaas SPECTRUM, I was wondering how different it would be compared to actual hops!

+1 on the "too many varietals" post above. 4 is the max I'll typically use and 3 my default.

I'd also question some of the orderings and timings for your hop additions - not sure what you hope to achieve with a 15 minute Nelson addition rather than using it in.tge whirlpool or DH, but you're going to lose most of what makes it characteristic.

@HM-2 Would this have something to do regarding the alpha/beta acids and other volatiles like mycrcene? Would like to know your thoughts on this and maybe could you lead me to some papers or research regarding this .


@To all of you. Thank you for your replies! and below in the other image would also be my gravity reading, didn't really hit my FG of 1.010, instead i got a reading of 1.005. Any tips to hit a more accurate gravity reading? could it be because of the use of enzymes, which was the AMG brewQ 300L.

Will share my progress soon after kegging and carbing it. Thank you for the reads.

 

[AlexKay]

Hello @Jag75 thanks for the reply! I ended up dry hopping during primary. So I opened the fermenter, dumped the hops in and closed it back, though i did not purge the oxygen, but the spunding valve did go back up in PSI.

Thanks for the in depth reply @AlexKay , I actually ended up Dry hopping with 42g Nectaron and 14g Talus. my initial thought was the more varieties i added the more complex it got so I will try using less hop varieties in my up and coming brews! Also I was hoping to get your insights and maybe how to's on these Hop oils i recently got at BrewAsia 2024.
the pictures inserted is from BarthHaas SPECTRUM, I was wondering how different it would be compared to actual hops!

To be sure, using lots of varietals might give you a fantastic beer. There are well-regarded breweries that do it all the time, and while I roll my eyes and suspect that it’s more their marketing departments than their brewers calling the shots, their brewers are certainly better at what they do than I am.

But I’m assuming your goal is tho learn how to make a great beer. And the more different kinds of hops you use, the harder it will be to understand why it did or didn’t work. And since you can make a top-notch beer (with plenty of complexity) with just one or two aroma hops, do that first! When you’re drinking the beer and thinking to yourself “hey, Nectaron is delicious, and I bet it goes great with Grove…” then that’s the time to start adding more hop varietals into the mix.

@HM-2 Would this have something to do regarding the alpha/beta acids and other volatiles like mycrcene? Would like to know your thoughts on this and maybe could you lead me to some papers or research regarding this .


@To all of you. Thank you for your replies! and below in the other image would also be my gravity reading, didn't really hit my FG of 1.010, instead i got a reading of 1.005. Any tips to hit a more accurate gravity reading? could it be because of the use of enzymes, which was the AMG brewQ 300L.

Almost certainly. That’s a glucoamylase, which breaks up starch that the yeast can’t ferment into sugars they can. You end up with less body and more alcohol, and a lower-final-gravity beer.

Enzymes can be predictable, too, so if you like what they’re doing, there’s no reason to avoid them. But if you take a recipe and add enzymes, you’re going to change the numbers (and the beer!) That’s what they’re for!

Will share my progress soon after kegging and carbing it. Thank you for the reads.

IMPORTANT: it sounds like you are having a really, really good time so far. Whatever anyone tells you, even if they’re right from a brewing or scientific perspective, only change what you’re doing if it lets you keep that joy.

 

[HM-2]

@HM-2 Would this have something to do regarding the alpha/beta acids and other volatiles like mycrcene? Would like to know your thoughts on this and maybe could you lead me to some papers or research regarding this

Basically, yes, but we can probably look at this a step further up without worrying too much about alpha versus beta acids.

Typically you'd use Nelson Sauvin post flameout as it's characteristic flavours- dry gooseberry and green grape- derive from compounds (both alpha and beta acids) that either boil off, or are isomerised during the boil process.

Put simply you "get" much more out of Nelson, pound for pound (or dollar for dollar), by dry hopping or whirlpooling with it instead of boiling it.

Important: it sounds like you are having a really, really good time so far. Whatever anyone tells you, even if they’re right from a brewing or scientific perspective, only change what you’re doing if it lets you keep that joy.

Also, this with bells on.