My first brew - not so great

[rijnswand]

I've made a couple AG brews with my co-workers before (pale ales), and now I've made my first brew on my own.

It's a Fuller's Black Cab Stout clone (all grain), and doesn't taste anything like the original.
Frankly I have never tasted a beer that was anything like this...
The recipe is taken from here with slight modifications, as I didn't have access to exactly the same malts.

Here's my recipe:

20 litres batch size, but ended up being only 18 (too little sparging).

3.80 kg Pale Ale (2-row) (6.0 EBC) 79.7 % 
0.28 kg Caraamber (Weyermann) (70.9 EBC) 6.0 % 
0.28 kg Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC) 6.0 % 
0.20 kg Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC) 4.2 % 
0.20 kg Roasted Barley (1000.0 EBC) 4.2 % 

35.00 g Fuggle [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 21.0 IBUs 
19.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min 9.7 IBUs 
19.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs 

BIAB Single Infusion at 69C (156F), Full Body, No Mash Out

Half batch with:
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04)
And the other half with:
1.0 pkg Windsor Yeast (Lallemand)

Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG (Windsor) / 1.014 SG (SafAle)

I split the batch into two fermetation vessels so that I could test two different yeasts with the same recipe.
Fermentation was very quick; the airlocks stopped bubbling after 24 hours (maybe because I used twice the amount of yeast that one would normally use?). I tried to keep the temperature at 65-70F using a water bath for the first couple of days. After that they we're at room temperature, which is around 73F.

It's now 14 days since brewing, and I've just bottled the beer. I know it's can take a long to time for porter/stout to mature, but on the other hand I've read here that if a beer is bad, it won't become a good beer with time?

Tastewise my first instinct was that the beer tastes sour, but I took a PH reading and it's not low (around 4.4). The smell of the beer is nothing like an English porter/stout; it's a bit unpleasant but maybe it's because when you look at it you expect it to smell of chocolate, coffee, etc. If someone smelled it blindfolded, they might think it's rosé wine! I guess it's just very fruity. If I pinch my nose while tasting it, then it tastes almost like normal porter. It also tastes very sweet. Maybe I'll just name this beer Banana Split?

So is my only mistake that I fermented at too high a temperature? Or is there something else I've missed? I don't think I have a contamination, most of my equipment is brand new and I sterilized them using alcohol.

By the way, after I made this beer, I used Bru'n Water to check my water. It estimates the mash PH for this brew to be 4.7!! Did that affect my beer? The water here in Finland is very soft/pure, so they actually add a little bit of gypsum to it to prevent corrosion, but apparently not enough for making a dark beer...


Here's a picture of the fermeted beer before bottling; there was very little krausen:

 

[dwhite60]

Keg/bottle it and wait.

It'll change quite a bit.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[TasunkaWitko]

It is amazing the differences that you will get even from very small changes in a given recipe. Our local brewry has a house wheat beer recipe that I really like. One day I went in, and they were offering a different one - the only difference between the former and the latter was the yeast, but both beers tasted quite different.

My point is that all of your "modifications" will add up to something that is completely different than what you think you made. If you are going for something specific, it is best to use a tried and true recipe and stick to it.

 

[didinho]

it seems everything was ok. dark malts require time to mature and taste good.
Let us know how the beer tastes in 4-5 weeks!

 

[Bosh]

Yeah two weeks is still young for this kind of beer. I had good beers that tasted like crap two weeks in.

 

[Hello]

You're definitely dealing with a young beer, but in the future, if your room temp is about 73F, your fermentation temp is quite a bit higher...at least a good 5 degrees. I believe that is a bit high for the yeast and the style of beer.

Let it age out at room temp for a while.

 

[augiedoggy]

From everything I have read soft water is not ideal for stouts....I'm no expert though. Both beers taste the same? The fruity flavor can be caused by some yeasts.... Sometimes it mellows out with proper aging and other times its from fermenting at too high a temp... I believe the Windsor for example can give off flavors at 70 or above...
Don't get discouraged.... The best way to learn is stick with one beer you really like and keep improving your skills each time while learning what had what impact.... Too many home brewers jump all around and never really give themselves a chance to actually learn what has what effect... ( there's nothing wrong with that but at least wait till you can make beer you actually like first.

 

[rijnswand]

Thanks for all your comments.

I opened a bottle of each batch to test. The Windsor one was a gusher, and smelled and tasted awful. Extremely fruity, cidery taste. The gushing might be due to the short time in bottle and the fact that it was the last bottle I filled (so more yeast etc at the bottom), but it could also be an infection.

The S04 was better, but not good. It also had a weird fruity/flowery smell and taste, like roses. A bit sour tasting.

Sorry augiedoggy, but I think I'll try a different recipe next. Maybe Fuller's London Porter.

Anyway, this time I'll try to do everything right. So:
- Forget the windor yeast, it's not suitable for these types of beer
- keep the fermentation temperature in the low 60's (using a cold water bath)
- more water in the mash
- better sparging
- finer grind
- add a little bit of chalk to raise the pH

 

[Bosh]

Sometimes the last bottle I filled is a real gusher. I THINK it is because the last bottle often has a good bit of hop trub which can cause gushers.

But if you're tasting sour that could be an infection.

 

[TX_Brewing]

Sounds to me like a double whammy of high fermentation temp and possible infection. If in doubt wait it out. Give the bottles some time to mellow, some of the off flavor may age out. I might recommend for a first time go at all grain try a simple recipe like the centennial blonde by biermuncher, it's a pretty fool proof recipe and will allow you to dial in your process.

Whatever you do keep at it and you will reap the rewards!

 

[drunkEnough4U]

To me this sounds like either a infection or the yeast was fermented at too high of a temp. Noob opinoin at best O course.

 

[slym2none]

From what I understand, extra trub/yeast in one bottle will not a gusher make. Too much priming sugar, or an infection, will.

 

[GHBWNY]

Main thing is that you do not sound defeated by this. There will be something you learn from this, but it won't be until you have brewed another and have a benchmark by which to compare. "First Brew Syndrome" is something a lot of us, including myself, have experienced. Everyone here is pulling for you. Like I said, we've been there, but we're still here.

 

[TX_Brewing]

Oh nobody has said it, but if you have a number of gushers you may want to be wary of bottle bombs. Best keep it cold while aging if you can, or store the bottles in boxes to minimize glass shards.

And yes we have all been there.

 

[Dutchbier]

After a year of trying to make beer that tastes like my favorites.....I am concentrating on process and making simple beers like blondes and single hop pales. I'll worry about making a great IPA after I really learn how to use my set up consistently. Keep at it -it gets better!

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for all your comments.

I opened a bottle of each batch to test. The Windsor one was a gusher, and smelled and tasted awful. Extremely fruity, cidery taste. The gushing might be due to the short time in bottle and the fact that it was the last bottle I filled (so more yeast etc at the bottom), but it could also be an infection.

The S04 was better, but not good. It also had a weird fruity/flowery smell and taste, like roses. A bit sour tasting.

Sorry augiedoggy, but I think I'll try a different recipe next. Maybe Fuller's London Porter.

Anyway, this time I'll try to do everything right. So:
- Forget the windor yeast, it's not suitable for these types of beer
- keep the fermentation temperature in the low 60's (using a cold water bath)
- more water in the mash
- better sparging
- finer grind
- add a little bit of chalk to raise the pH

Too much yeast in suspension can cause the beer to gush when opened as can spices or hop particles. That's one of the reasons we suggest you leave your beer for 3 weeks after bottling before opening one. It doesn't take 3 weeks to carbonate but it does take time for the yeast to settle out. Be careful with this beer as if it is infected or has too much priming sugar it can cause bottles to explode but do wait to open the next one.

 

[SpeedYellow]

...By the way, after I made this beer, I used Bru'n Water to check my water. It estimates the mash PH for this brew to be 4.7!! Did that affect my beer? The water here in Finland is very soft/pure, so they actually add a little bit of gypsum to it to prevent corrosion, but apparently not enough for making a dark beer...

You should check your calculations, because predicting 4.7 just doesn't sound right, even if you have zero alkalinity and lots of gypsum. I would expect closer to 5.0 to 5.4 for that recipe. And make sure you're entering Lovibond instead of SRM (and your SRM values seem *really* high!).

...
Anyway, this time I'll try to do everything right. So:
- Forget the windor yeast, it's not suitable for these types of beer
- keep the fermentation temperature in the low 60's (using a cold water bath)
- more water in the mash
- better sparging
- finer grind
- add a little bit of chalk to raise the pH

Folks who have used chalk report very bad results, since it barely dissolves at mash temps. Check out the Brew Science section. Pickling Lime is far preferred over chalk, if you actually need it (which I doubt).

I suspect your problem here was (1) recipe that doesn't suit your tastes, and (2) high fermentation temps.

 

[rijnswand]

You should check your calculations, because predicting 4.7 just doesn't sound right, even if you have zero alkalinity and lots of gypsum. I would expect closer to 5.0 to 5.4 for that recipe. And make sure you're entering Lovibond instead of SRM (and your SRM values seem *really* high!).

Thanks, I checked the calculator and realized that I had made a mistake; I hadn't selected the correct grain type, I just entered quantity and color. The actual predicted pH is 5.4, so that's one problem less to worry about.

Note the color values in my first post are in EBC, which is about double compared to SRM.

I also opened another bottle of the Windsor brew, this time a chilled one, and it wasn't a gusher. The taste wasn't much better, though.