My First Brew... Need Help

[Beerfant]

Hi friends,

I am new and this is my first 'brewing' post and second only after a short introduction.

I live in a country where drinking is illegal for the majority. It is on the expensive side, and while it is easily available, you run a big risk of being caught while taking it home. So I decided to try making some for myself.

I searched on google and found lots of useful information. It would have been easy to brew my own beer but finding the main ingredients was almost impossible. We do have lot's of barley, but no malted one. Even if I somehow manage to malt my own barley, there is no way to find hops. So I thought left me start from the very basics.

I boiled 1 kg (2.2 lb) cane sugar in about 4.5 liter (approx 1.2 US Gallons) water, along with some cinnamon sticks, cloves and some aniseed. I put it in a 6 liter PET water bottle, and used an 11 g (0.39 oz) bakers dry yeast sachet (saccharomyces cerevisiae)

Initially, I dissolved the yeast in a diluted solution of my wort, and let it foam before putting it in the wort. I let the cap open for some time, then capped it. It was going fine, but when I went to let the accumulated CO2 out, the cap opened with big pop. Afraid the plastic bottle might explode, I put on the cap without tightening it. Thereafter, the activity slowed down in the bottle. Later in the evening, I went and purchased a brass nozzle and fixed it on the cap, attached a 1/4 in transparent soft plastic pipe to it. I put the fermenting bottle in a small plastic pale with some water in it, sucked out air from the bottle with my mouth and put the open end of the pipe into the water in the pale. Thus, I made a crude airlock. Now, I can see a big bubble or two come out in the water almost every 1-2 seconds.

Here is the current position:

• It's been fermenting for about 40 hours now
• The color of the fermenting wort is pale yellow
• CO2 is released every 1-2 seconds through the 1/4" pipe
• I do not see any froth accumulating on the surface
• The current temperature here ranges between 77 and 86 degrees F (considering the day-night change)

I would be grateful if you guys help me with your valuable advice in any way possible. I do have a few questions in mind...

• How long should I wait before transferring it to the secondary fermenting bottle, considering the higher temperature might speed up the process?
• Should I add more yeast?
• What is the approximate percentage of alcohol I can expect from this?
• Can I add anything to make it taste better? Coffee? Fruit juice? Spices? Anything else... remember I have no hops available here.
• Can I add more sugar wort to it at this stage to make it stronger?
• Any other advice you would like to give that i have not foreseen...

I am sorry this post became so long. Thank you for your patience!

 

[giraffe]

Honestly an all sugar brew with bread yeast is not going to taste good. At all. You would have much better luck making wine/cider from fermenting fruit juices.

Once the yeast falls, and the bubbles stop for a few days, you can probably bottle.
No more yeast is necessary
Very roughly 5-6%
Id just make from mostly juice next time. You can try adding lemon juice or something to hide the taste, but really id just take this as a learning experience.
You can add more sugar. It will also make it less palatable.

 

[ol-hazza]

I'm assuming that its legal for you to brew and drink in your house? If not stop being naughty and don't listen to anything i have to say

How long should I wait before transferring it to the secondary fermenting bottle, considering the higher temperature might speed up the process? Leave it in the current bottle for 2-3 weeks and then bottle
Should I add more yeast? No
What is the approximate percentage of alcohol I can expect from this? 8% if the yeast attenuates like beer yeast, but I have no idea what its alcohol tolerance is.
Can I add anything to make it taste better? Coffee? Fruit juice? Spices? Anything else... remember I have no hops available here. ummmm probably. I havn't tried this recipe before so have no idea what its going to taste like. Maybe make it into a ginger beer
Can I add more sugar wort to it at this stage to make it stronger? not by much
Any other advice you would like to give that I have not foreseen... Try brewing cider, I assume they have apple juice where you are.

 

[Clarke]

Great initiative and story, I also agree that this may not be the best tasting beverage and that wine and cider should be your course of interest… good luck with your journey…

 

[Andyoesq]

I will not comment on beer being illegal, and will assume this is just a hypothetical question.
You could hypothetically make something like this: the only ingredients are apple juice, sugar, and yeast:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/

nothing which I would hope would raise suspicions, and which you could easily get, not need a bunch of gear, easy to do.

 

[Beerfant]

Thank you guys. I agree it won't taste one bit like beer... I wanted to get some fresh sugarcane juice that is readily available here, but then got lazy and hasty, and started with what I had at home. Yes, apples are available, and grapes will be available in August. How about dates?

Since this is my first ever attempt, I am willing to experiment. I've been thinking how it would be if I add a few cans of non-alcoholic malt drinks to the wort?

 

[mdindy]

I would recomend purchasing a kit with everything you need included if you have trouble getting hops or malt. it will have everything included that you will need and will cost about 50-55$ for 5 gallons.

 

[Beerfant]

I would recomend purchasing a kit with everything you need included if you have trouble getting hops or malt. it will have everything included that you will need and will cost about 50-55$ for 5 gallons.

Getting a kit here is impossible, and ordering one from elsewhere is like inviting the bull to come and gore ya!

 

[Beerfant]

I will not comment on beer being illegal, and will assume this is just a hypothetical question.
You could hypothetically make something like this: the only ingredients are apple juice, sugar, and yeast:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/

nothing which I would hope would raise suspicions, and which you could easily get, not need a bunch of gear, easy to do.

Thanks pal! This sure is a great and easy recipe. The temperature here will soar close to 100 in the next month, so I'll try it around September when it begins to cool down, and apples are cheaper because of the new harvest.

 

[brewprint]

Just curious; where do you live?

 

[Beerfant]

Just curious; where do you live?

I thought I would not disclose my location, but hell, who cares. I live in Pakistan.

 

[Kirkwooder]

give this a try. it's great, easy to find ingredients for, and can be done with almost any fruit juice.

http://skeeterpee.com/?page_id=17

Don't worry about the nutrient and other additions. Most juice doesn't need all that to ferment. It's pretty darn good too.

 

[TheHappyHopper]

Hops are actually a relatively recent addition to beers - back in the day (which was a Wednesday), brewers used all kinds of things to bitter their beers Check out this link about "Gruit". Based on your location, I don't know what herbs and plants are available to you, but if you really wanted to go the route of malting your own barley, you could still find something to bitter your beer.

 

[Andyoesq]

See - beer bringing different cultures, on other sides of the world, together.

 

[brewprint]

I thought I would not disclose my location, but hell, who cares. I live in Pakistan.

I'm sure everyone was curious

Good luck with the brew.

 

[Beerfant]

I'm sure everyone was curious

Good luck with the brew.

Thanks buddy! I tasted my brew yesterday... tasted like (slightly) rotten grapes, but it gave me heartburn, probably because of the sugar content

 

[brewprint]

Thanks buddy! I tasted my brew yesterday... tasted like (slightly) rotten grapes, but it gave me heartburn, probably because of the sugar content

Yeah there has to be a way for you to make some good drink!

 

[Beerfant]

Do you think, if I germinate barley and then use it without drying, would that help make some drinkable beer?

 

[giraffe]

Also a bit of general advice, when using bread yeast, you want to keep the temps below 75 for the first few days, otherwise it will make a lot of fusel alcohols. Fusel alcohols taste like solvent, and will give you bad hangovers. If it is hotter in your house, keep the fermenter wrapped in a wet towel. The wet towel, by evaporation, will keep the fermenter cooler by a few degrees.

 

[giraffe]

Do you think, if I germinate barley and then use it without drying, would that help make some drinkable beer?

you could dry it in the oven, there are instructions if you search for making your own malt.

But its not easy, and making beer from malt will require alot of equipment, and without hops, and everything else, there are probably better plans. Like wine, skeeterpee, cider, apelfein, like was mentioned above. I wouldnt try it until youve learned fermentation and have gotten drinkable other, easier, beverages.

If you really, really want beer in the short term, maybe you can try fermenting malt sodas. Here we can get malta goya which is pretty much unfermented beer, many countries have similar. Boil for 15 minutes and add a little sugar to up the alcohol %, let cool and add yeast and hope for the best.

 

[Beerfant]

you could dry it in the oven, there are instructions if you search for making your own malt.

But its not easy, and making beer from malt will require alot of equipment, and without hops, and everything else, there are probably better plans. Like wine, skeeterpee, cider, apelfein, like was mentioned above. I wouldnt try it until youve learned fermentation and have gotten drinkable other, easier, beverages.

Just a bit curious... why can't we make beer from wet barley that has been germinated? I think it's not done because you don't get wet malted barley for obvious reasons. Is it a matter of 'how it is done' against 'how it could be done'?

I would love making wine but then I have to wait at least six months before I can consume it

If you really, really want beer in the short term, maybe you can try fermenting malt sodas. Here we can get malta goya which is pretty much unfermented beer, many countries have similar. Boil for 15 minutes and add a little sugar to up the alcohol %, let cool and add yeast and hope for the best.

Good idea, gotta try it! You know, apart from drinking it, I seem to have gotten hooked to try and make a good drink. It is catching up as a hobby!

 

[Kirkwooder]

I believe that the barley needs to dry with some heat in order to release the maltose during the mashing process. I'm not certain but I don't think you can use high moisture, or non kilned malt. Drying the malt really isn't that hard. spread it thin on a cookie sheet and stick it in the oven at about 200*F for a few hours. It will be dry as a bone.

On another note, I made a one gallon batch of spruce beer a year or so ago and it was fairly good. It use no hops, and was instead bittered with the new growth from spruce trees. I don't know if you have spruce, but I sure you can find something to substitute for the hops.

 

[Beerfant]

Okay guys, it's been almost 6 days... the fermentation still continues. When should I try and stop it? It's still bubbling every 6 seconds. From what I read, in these temperatures, 2.2# sugar should have been consumed already

 

[Kirkwooder]

Let it ride until it's done bubbling and then let it go for at least another week.

 

[aprichman]

I believe that the barley needs to dry with some heat in order to release the maltose during the mashing process. I'm not certain but I don't think you can use high moisture, or non kilned malt. Drying the malt really isn't that hard. spread it thin on a cookie sheet and stick it in the oven at about 200*F for a few hours. It will be dry as a bone.

On another note, I made a one gallon batch of spruce beer a year or so ago and it was fairly good. It use no hops, and was instead bittered with the new growth from spruce trees. I don't know if you have spruce, but I sure you can find something to substitute for the hops.

How Beer Saved the World talks about how the original beer was a happy accident that sprung about from barley seeds being exposed to rain over a prolonged period. A lot of research actually points to beer being responsible for starting agriculture which in turn led to the rise of "civilization".

[ame]https://vimeo.com/23278902[/ame]

 

[Clarke]

I love beer, but the idea that people farmed for beer before food is hard for me to believe, I have also read that beer was first made from fermenting half made bread in water and this is how beer was first started. I don't know how it started and I am sure it caused a revolution that drove empires but the idea that it was beer before food, maybe, maybe not... I would have thought fermenting fruit would have been easier and more farmable if we settled the earth for the creation of alcohol.

 

[Gavin C]

I would second the idea of making Edwort's Apfelwein. The stuff is delicious. So simple too. At 6 months old it really is great. Getting the ingredients for another batch soon. It is my favorite cider I have ever had. Proud to offer it to guests.

If you make it with bread yeast I'm not sure how it will finish but would imagine it would be leagues ahead of the recipe you outline.

Cudos to your ingenuity. I wouldn't have known where to begin.

 

[guillaume]

You know, your recipe is the same i used to make co2 for my fish tanks..... I tasted one time after fermentation stopped. Eww....

 

[ol-hazza]

I love beer, but the idea that people farmed for beer before food is hard for me to believe.

Fromthe theory i have heard they didnt begin farming for brewing, brewing just made them sedentary for the period of fermentation and this was a catylst for change in lifestyle towards farming.

Its a pretty sketchy theory at best......

 

[Clarke]

Fromthe theory i have heard they didnt begin farming for brewing, brewing just made them sedentary for the period of fermentation and this was a catylst for change in lifestyle towards farming.

Its a pretty sketchy theory at best......

I can see a fermented beverage making someone sedentary, but wouldn't the time it took for a food crop to grow, harvest and repeat, make a person and culture just as stationary? And once farming for food was mastered, humans realized that they didn't have to migrate or hunt as much, and found that a resources such as food brought commerce, wealth and power that a civilization could be built. I would think that fermentation would be a side effect of stationary living, and another great resource for commerce.

 

[Beerfant]

I would second the idea of making Edwort's Apfelwein. The stuff is delicious. So simple too. At 6 months old it really is great. Getting the ingredients for another batch soon. It is my favorite cider I have ever had. Proud to offer it to guests.

If you make it with bread yeast I'm not sure how it will finish but would imagine it would be leagues ahead of the recipe you outline.

Cudos to your ingenuity. I wouldn't have known where to begin.

Thanks!! What I don't understand is why everybody is calling it bread yeast. As per my understanding, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae is wine making yeast also use for beer.

 

[Gavin C]

Thanks!! What I don't understand is why everybody is calling it bread yeast. As per my understanding, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae is wine making yeast also use for beer.

I'm not a microbiologist but I believe you are correct. Bread yeast and Brewers yeast are the same species. There are differences in sub species however as far as I know.

For example for Brewers yeast there are hundreds of different types available for use in a myriad of different ale or lager styles. Some types will have a higher alcohol tolerance than others, some will be better suited to metabolizing maltose etc.

Bread yeast would not be used by the vast majority of commercial or hobby Brewers but it will eat sugar and produce waste products alcohol and CO2.

Both are Saccharomyces cerevisiae
A bit analogous to dogs. All species are the same from a biological species point of view. Selective breeding in dogs; canis lupus, just as in yeasts has been used for millennia to promote certain genetic traits to serve a desired function.

 

[aprichman]

I love beer, but the idea that people farmed for beer before food is hard for me to believe, I have also read that beer was first made from fermenting half made bread in water and this is how beer was first started. I don't know how it started and I am sure it caused a revolution that drove empires but the idea that it was beer before food, maybe, maybe not... I would have thought fermenting fruit would have been easier and more farmable if we settled the earth for the creation of alcohol.

The "beer" that was originally made would resemble a bubbling porridge and wouldn't look anything like it did today. Bread was indeed used as a beer starter by ancient Egyptian and Sumerian civilizations but at that point beer was a common part of every day life. There were tons of "breweries" in ancient Sumeria and later on the Egyptians were not only making beer and wine but actually had an understanding of terroir - the idea that the unique geography of a region can effect the sensory aspects of a finished product like beer or wine. However before ancient Egyptian or Sumerian civilization had started, there are artifacts showing that barley was being fermented. These artifacts predate any that have been found for making bread.

Personally, it's not hard for me to believe the beer before bread argument for a few reasons. First, sprouting a grain is going to make it more nutritious and easy to digest. Secondly, if you don't have ready access to fire the only way to make the grains edible would be to let them soak in rain water. Finally, the intoxicating effects would have been incredibly desirable.

So in the end you have a porridge that is going to be more nutritious, easier to digest, doesn't require any fire or special tools to make, and gets you slightly intoxicated. That's one hell of a breakfast

 

[Beerfant]

I'm not a microbiologist but I believe you are correct. Bread yeast and Brewers yeast are the same species. There are differences in sub species however as far as I know.

For example for Brewers yeast there are hundreds of different types available for use in a myriad of different ale or lager styles. Some types will have a higher alcohol tolerance than others, some will be better suited to metabolizing maltose etc.

Bread yeast would not be used by the vast majority of commercial or hobby Brewers but it will eat sugar and produce waste products alcohol and CO2.

Both are Saccharomyces cerevisiae
A bit analogous to dogs. All species are the same from a biological species point of view. Selective breeding in dogs; canis lupus, just as in yeasts has been used for millennia to promote certain genetic traits to serve a desired function.

It would be difficult to know what the alcohol tolerance is of the yeast available here, as they do not sell it for the brewing industry, but cheated a 1/2 liter sample 2 days earlier, chilled it and drank. Now the strongest beer made here is around 8% abv. I can assure you what I drank was much stronger! So, I guess wine making is a good idea with this yeast.

 

[Gavin C]

Thanks!! What I don't understand is why everybody is calling it bread yeast. As per my understanding, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae is wine making yeast also use for beer.

You could also try this Mead recipe.

Bread yeast is used. Good up to 12-13 % ABV

I've made this twice. Not a big fan but lots of folks love it.

 

[ol-hazza]

I can see a fermented beverage making someone sedentary, but wouldn't the time it took for a food crop to grow, harvest and repeat, make a person and culture just as stationary? And once farming for food was mastered, humans realized that they didn't have to migrate or hunt as much, and found that a resources such as food brought commerce, wealth and power that a civilization could be built. I would think that fermentation would be a side effect of stationary living, and another great resource for commerce.

They weren't farming before brewing according to the theory, still hunter gatherers. Because they had to be sedentary for fermentation they then started farming etc.

I don't believe the theory personally, so not sure why I am defending it.

 

[Beerfant]

You could also try this Mead recipe.

Bread yeast is used. Good up to 12-13 % ABV

I've made this twice. Not a big fan but lots of folks love it.

From what I have read, honey takes a much longer time to ferment. Also, I probably can't make wine now as it is going to get quite hot.

What I am planning is take a gallon of fresh sugarcane juice, add apple or orange juice and ferment it. What do you say?

 

[Clarke]

Personally, it's not hard for me to believe the beer before bread argument for a few reasons. First, sprouting a grain is going to make it more nutritious and easy to digest. Secondly, if you don't have ready access to fire the only way to make the grains edible would be to let them soak in rain water. Finally, the intoxicating effects would have been incredibly desirable.

I am not debating the beer before bread theory, I am only saying that I believe farming of other fruits, vegetables and animals IMO would have been around before beer, it is hard for me to believe that grain was the one item of sustenance that was chosen over all the other forageable and domesticated foods to stop nomadic people and start a civilization. I am sure once grain was discovered to ferment in such a way, it became a valuable commodity like any fun and addictive substance and grew a civilization exponentially, but the same can be said for potatoes.

 

[giraffe]

From what I have read, honey takes a much longer time to ferment. Also, I probably can't make wine now as it is going to get quite hot.

What I am planning is take a gallon of fresh sugarcane juice, add apple or orange juice and ferment it. What do you say?

Go with the apple. Orange juice can ferment with an unpleasant aftertaste in my experience.

 

[Beerfant]

Well friends, the fermentation had stopped, so I transferred the brew in a clean bottle. It was about 3 liters left. I added 1 liter of non-alcoholic malt drink that is readily available here and is produced by the only brewery in the country. I used the lemon flavored one for this experiment. I filled the two 1/2 liter empty beer bottles with my brew, and refrigerated them without bothering about priming. The remaining 3 liters, I have left in the (call it the secondary) 6 liter water bottle, and put it in a dark cool place. Fermentation has gain started due to the addition of sugars via the malt drink.

I am now drinking one!

Now, I apologize to most of you, who are used to brewing and drinking some of the best beer available anywhere, but I have drunk quite a lot of the local Murree brand, Heineken and Spanish Cruzcampo, so I do know what beer tastes like, even if not the best. I can assure you I have ended up with something very drinkable that tastes like beer apart from the slight sweetness. At the very least, it did not end up as something I would have to say 'yuck' after the first or even the last gulp.

Now, this malt drink already has hops in it's ingredients! We do get an unflavored variety also. Next time, I'll make my wort with the unflavored malt drink entirely. I'll add sugar (or dextrose, if I can find it) and ferment that. I am sure I'll get as close to making beer, as I can without a proper mash of malts and grains.

Cheers!