My Bitter tastes like apple cider

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Colizza

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Hey guys, brewed a batch of Bitter 2 weeks ago:
5 gal batch:

6lbs marris otter
0.5lbs crystal 15
0.5 lbs crystal 80
0.5 lbs biscuit

Total : 7.5lbs

Mash ph: 5.29 (added 2teaspoon gypsum and 1teaspoon epsom, my water is pretty soft

O.G.: 1.040 @ 5.8gallons

Hops: 1oz EKG & 1oz fuggles @ 60min
0.5oz EKG @ 10min
0.5oz EKG & 0.5oz fuggles @ 5min

Pitched 0.8L starter of WLP002 (english ale)
180billion cells

Fermented @ 66-68 deg for 5 days
68-70 deg for 9 days

Took a sample @ 2 weeks:
S.G. : 1.009
Taste: I ONLY TASTE APPLE CIDER (wlp002 i supposed) and really subdued/watery maltiness, no caramel, biscuit, grainyness, nuttyness.

Do you guys have any idea where i could have messed up?
Can I save the batch (still in fermenter)?
 

Psylocide

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You say you fermented at 66-68, is that ambient temp or wort temp?

I wouldn't rush to judgment until it's carbed and cold though.
 

BigMack

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Sounds like you've got an acetaldehyde bomb on your hands. If that is the case then it may age out some, but if it is acetaldehyde you will likely not be able to get rid of it completely. You can try rousing the yeast a little to see if getting some of it back in suspension helps clean it up since you used such a flocculant yeast.
 
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Colizza

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66-68 is my ambient temperature, but i took a reading with a thermometer and it always shows me the lower range (66deg)
 
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Colizza

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I brewed with belgian yeast, but i never thought that the acetaldehyde could come through that much in a english yeast. I roused up the yeast after 5 days and pumped the temp to 70deg to get rid of diacetyl. Ill try it again
 

Psylocide

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Did you take the temp when the initial ferment was kicking hard? Could have easily raised it up over 70°.

That might explain some of it, yeast could have been stressed, etc.
 
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Colizza

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Pitched the yeast at 70 (wort chiller) and chilled it to 64 in the lag phase (says my notes). Forst sigbs of fermentation kicked in and the temps was 64deg. At high krausen, it was 66-68 (read on the outside thermometer on the carboy) and was 66 with a thermometer reading inside the fermenter
 
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Colizza

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Pitch: 70
Lag phase: 64
First signs: 64
High krausen: 66
 

Malty_Dog

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Here's what I found about acetaldehyde in the HBT wiki: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Acetaldehyde

particularly this: "Adetaldehyde is also a byproduct of the conversion of ethanol to acetic acid (vinegar) by acetic acid bacteria. If this is the cause of your acetaldehyde problems, it will probably be accompanied by a vinegar-like or cidery flavour and aroma."

Does that sound like it? So possibly bacterial?
 

Psylocide

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Pitched the yeast at 70 (wort chiller) and chilled it to 64 in the lag phase (says my notes). Forst sigbs of fermentation kicked in and the temps was 64deg. At high krausen, it was 66-68 (read on the outside thermometer on the carboy) and was 66 with a thermometer reading inside the fermenter
How often were you opening the carboy to take temp readings, etc?

Maybe exposed to oxygen too often?
 
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Colizza

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Il' look again tonight, didnt taste like vinegar though.

Could it possibly be either over pitching (i pitched at 180 billion cells when brewers froend calculator said 160billion cells) or over attenuation, which takes away all the maltiness an other flavors?
 
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Colizza

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Twice, early fermwntation and high krausen, theres was really no shaking involved though
 
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