Munich Dunkel Recipe

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homebrew212

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What does everyone think of this munich dunkel recipe?

89.3% Weyermann Munich Malt-Type I
4% Weyermann Melanoidin Malt
2.2% Weyermann Carafa Special II 420L
3.5% Weyermann Cara-Pils
1% Weyermann CaraRed

Ferment with Wyeast Hella Bock yeast (Ayinger Strain)

Bitter with Hallertau Mittelfruh to 30 IBU

Does anyone think it might be too cloyingly sweet with the crystal malts or is it balanced enough?
 
I think it will be too sweet. One thing you might try is to skip all the crystal malt and split the bill with Munich I and II. If you need a bit more color then add in an ounce or two of the Carafa. It will be malty enough without the crystal IMO.
 
Personally, I'd first try it with only Munich I and Munich II. You'll get a decent amount of color from the II. I made one with 100% II and it is actually too malty and thick. I'm going to try it again with a 50/50 split. I'm shooting for a beer that is malty, but drinkable enough to drink a liter of and kinda want another one.

If you end up feeling it is still too thin, then add some of the Melanoidin.
 
I don't agree it'll be too sweet, I'd actually ditch the carapils/red for caramunich. I'd cut back on the IBUs too
 
Are you brewing this to just enjoy, or are you going to be competing with it? I'm not a huge fan of melanoidin malt. I was using it in pretty much all of my malty beers (dunkel, oktoberfest, etc) but think it gives just a little bit of a fruity flavor that is out of place in some of these styles and can potentially be considered a flaw.

I've had really good luck with this recipe. Batch size is 6 gallons @ 67% efficiency.

10 lbs Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 2 78.1 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner Malt (Avangar) (1.5 SRM) Grain 3 11.7 %
1 lbs Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 4 7.8 %
5.0 oz Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.4 %
0.40 oz Magnum [14.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 18.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 6.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -

It's won 4 gold medals and a best in show.
 
Are you brewing this to just enjoy, or are you going to be competing with it? I'm not a huge fan of melanoidin malt. I was using it in pretty much all of my malty beers (dunkel, oktoberfest, etc) but think it gives just a little bit of a fruity flavor that is out of place in some of these styles and can potentially be considered a flaw.

I've had really good luck with this recipe. Batch size is 6 gallons @ 67% efficiency.

10 lbs Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 2 78.1 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner Malt (Avangar) (1.5 SRM) Grain 3 11.7 %
1 lbs Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 4 7.8 %
5.0 oz Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.4 %
0.40 oz Magnum [14.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 18.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 6.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -

It's won 4 gold medals and a best in show.

This is a great recipe for Munich Dunkel, very similar to mine.

OP I suggest you stick close to this. However if you're brewing for yourself only and just want to mess around, do whatever! If you want a classic Munich Dunkel, Munich/Pils/Carafa3 is all you need. A tiny bit of chocolate malt too is OK.
 
Can I ask what your mash temp was and fermentation temps? Looking to do a good dunkel. Thanks!

Are you brewing this to just enjoy, or are you going to be competing with it? I'm not a huge fan of melanoidin malt. I was using it in pretty much all of my malty beers (dunkel, oktoberfest, etc) but think it gives just a little bit of a fruity flavor that is out of place in some of these styles and can potentially be considered a flaw.

I've had really good luck with this recipe. Batch size is 6 gallons @ 67% efficiency.

10 lbs Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 2 78.1 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner Malt (Avangar) (1.5 SRM) Grain 3 11.7 %
1 lbs Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 4 7.8 %
5.0 oz Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.4 %
0.40 oz Magnum [14.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 18.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 6.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -

It's won 4 gold medals and a best in show.
 
Can I ask what your mash temp was and fermentation temps? Looking to do a good dunkel. Thanks!


I mashed this one around 154F, but you can adjust that so you get a finishing gravity of 1.014 or so.

My lager fermentations are all pretty much the same. I run off in to a 6 gallon carboy and allow the cold break to settle, then rack off in to either a clean 6 or 5 gallon carboy, depending on how much settles out. Put in fridge and chill to 46F - 48F and pitch. Allow to raise to 50F and keep it there until things start to slow a little, then increase the temp to 52f. Then once it starts to slow again, I pull it out and allow it to come up to room temp to finish and help clean up diacetyl.

A lot of this process has been developed because it works for me, so don't be afraid to adapt it to work for you. Racking off the cold break helps me get nice clean yeast that's easier to repitch.
 
I mashed this one around 154F, but you can adjust that so you get a finishing gravity of 1.014 or so.

My lager fermentations are all pretty much the same. I run off in to a 6 gallon carboy and allow the cold break to settle, then rack off in to either a clean 6 or 5 gallon carboy, depending on how much settles out. Put in fridge and chill to 46F - 48F and pitch. Allow to raise to 50F and keep it there until things start to slow a little, then increase the temp to 52f. Then once it starts to slow again, I pull it out and allow it to come up to room temp to finish and help clean up diacetyl.

A lot of this process has been developed because it works for me, so don't be afraid to adapt it to work for you. Racking off the cold break helps me get nice clean yeast that's easier to reproach.

Hey did you happen to be at Beer and Sweat in Cincinnati last August? There was a guy there from ****sburgh who had an awesome Munich Dunkel.
 
Hey did you happen to be at Beer and Sweat in Cincinnati last August? There was a guy there from ****sburgh who had an awesome Munich Dunkel.


Yup. That was me. I made another variation of this recipe with some dark Munich malt and it just didn't quite stand up to this recipe. It was too fruity - from the dark Munich, not fermentation issues.

Glad you liked the Dunkel at Beer & Sweat. That was a good time and I'm hoping to be back this year.
 
I have had the same fruitiness problems with too much dark munich and melanoiden especially when I do big decoctions. I think there is a threshold for maltiness that gets crossed.
 
I have had the same fruitiness problems with too much dark munich and melanoiden especially when I do big decoctions. I think there is a threshold for maltiness that gets crossed.


I totally stopped using melanoidin malt for this exact reason. I used to use like 2-4oz in all my German beers instead of a decoction, but found it too be fruity instead of mimicking a decoction. I now take the time to do a mash out decoction where I pull about 2 gallons of thick mash and boil for about 20 mins. I usually pull the decoction at 30 mins or so and usually do it for pilsners, Vienna lagers and Oktoberfests. When I rebrewed this recipe I did a mash out decoction too, but it's still lagering so I can't comment on the benefits yet.
 
10 lbs Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 2 78.1 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner Malt (Avangar) (1.5 SRM) Grain 3 11.7 %
1 lbs Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 4 7.8 %
5.0 oz Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.4 %
0.40 oz Magnum [14.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 18.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 6.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -

I'm looking to make a dunkel soon and was looking to do a similar recipe. What do you think the pilsner gives over all munich for base malt?
 
I totally stopped using melanoidin malt for this exact reason. I used to use like 2-4oz in all my German beers instead of a decoction, but found it too be fruity instead of mimicking a decoction. I now take the time to do a mash out decoction where I pull about 2 gallons of thick mash and boil for about 20 mins. I usually pull the decoction at 30 mins or so and usually do it for pilsners, Vienna lagers and Oktoberfests. When I rebrewed this recipe I did a mash out decoction too, but it's still lagering so I can't comment on the benefits yet.

I agree about the melanoidin as well. I've still never tried a decoction though, starting to get more into lagers so I'll definitely be trying one soon. Have you really noticed a good increase with them? I know it's such a heated debate. Do you do a protein rest too?
 
I'm looking to make a dunkel soon and was looking to do a similar recipe. What do you think the pilsner gives over all munich for base malt?

I mainly added the Pilsner malt in there to make sure there were enough enzymes to get complete conversion. I know Munich is supposed to be able to self convert, but wanted to get more in there just in case. I also wanted to squeeze out a point of attenuation. I don't really believe that a degree or two has that much impact on final gravity, so I rely on ingredients to drive it.
 
Hey Andy, what SRM do you gun for with your recipe? I'm at 20, too light?

My recipe in Beersmith is showing 17.8 SRM. You can change the color by adding more or less Carafa III Special. I usually cold steep it and add it directly to the kettle. I determine color using a similar sized glass as they would at a competition, so if it's too light, I add a little more Carafa liquid. Keep in mind it will darken when the volume is decreased too, so don't go too dark.

20 SRM isn't too light at all in my opinion.
 
I agree about the melanoidin as well. I've still never tried a decoction though, starting to get more into lagers so I'll definitely be trying one soon. Have you really noticed a good increase with them? I know it's such a heated debate. Do you do a protein rest too?

I do notice a difference. It's certainly subtle but subtleties are what separate a 39 point beer and a 40 point beer. For something like a Munich Helles it's way more noticeable.

I normally just do a single infusion. I pull the decoction about 20 or 30 mins in to the mash and boil it for 15-30 mins, depending on the level of flavor and color I'm looking for. Then add it back in once I test for complete conversion. I usually have full conversion by about 20 mins in to the mash though.
 
I do decoctions because I enjoy separating my beers from what you get commercially and I enjoy the extra steps. You feel closer to the beer and you can tell everyone that tries it that you used the traditional methods.
At least 20% of your enjoyment when drinking a beer is the atmosphere, your mood and perception of the beer's quality. I just enjoy drinking beer I worked hard on.
 
Hello,
I stummbled upon this recipe and ordered all the ingredients from my local Brew Store here in Norway. Im a little confused at what you are referring to when you refer to racking off the Cold Break.

Also, how long are you leaving the Beer in the FV before bottling/Kegging?

Many thanks,

Andy


I mashed this one around 154F, but you can adjust that so you get a finishing gravity of 1.014 or so.

My lager fermentations are all pretty much the same. I run off in to a 6 gallon carboy and allow the cold break to settle, then rack off in to either a clean 6 or 5 gallon carboy, depending on how much settles out. Put in fridge and chill to 46F - 48F and pitch. Allow to raise to 50F and keep it there until things start to slow a little, then increase the temp to 52f. Then once it starts to slow again, I pull it out and allow it to come up to room temp to finish and help clean up diacetyl.

A lot of this process has been developed because it works for me, so don't be afraid to adapt it to work for you. Racking off the cold break helps me get nice clean yeast that's easier to repitch.
 
Hello,
I stummbled upon this recipe and ordered all the ingredients from my local Brew Store here in Norway. Im a little confused at what you are referring to when you refer to racking off the Cold Break.

Also, how long are you leaving the Beer in the FV before bottling/Kegging?

Many thanks,

Andy

The idea is to get hop debris, cold break (coagulated proteins) and other particulate out of the primary fermentor before you pitch the yeast. This will lead to a cleaner fermentation and will allow you to reuse the yeast easier.

I go from the kettle in to a carboy, and I allow the wort in the 1st carboy to separate. The cold break and junk will sink to the bottom. Here's a photo that illustrates it pretty well.

cold-break.jpg


Once that happens, I rack off from on top of that in to a 2nd carboy and pitch my yeast (assuming it's proper pitching temp of 48F).

As far as timing goes, this is going to be a little different for everyone. I usually pitch a large starter of WLP833 Bock yeast at 48F and let it go for 3-4 days, then I start to increase the temp about a degree a day over the next 3 - 4 days to keep fermentation active. Once I hit about the 8th day or so and I'm at 52F, I'll pull the fermentor out of my fridge and warm it up to around 62F - 65F to do a diacetyl rest and to allow fermentation to totally finish. Once fermentation is totally done, I cold crash rapidly. Some people like to take it down just a couple degrees a day. I've tried both ways and haven't noticed a difference. Once it's chilled down I rack from the primary in to a secondary carboy and put it back in the fridge to bulk lager. At this point you could put it in a keg to lager if you'd like, but I have more available carboys than I do kegs.

Let me know if you have any more questions about my process. It's sounds a lot more complicated than it is.
 
Many thanks for the indepth reply! :)

Ill use this infor tonight when I start. :) Its a learning process for me but Im really enjoying it!

I guess the cold break and hops need around 12 hours to settle?

What temp to do you cold crash at?

And how long is the lagering period?

Thanks so much for taking the tiem to answer my noob questions. :D
 
My recipe in Beersmith is showing 17.8 SRM. You can change the color by adding more or less Carafa III Special. I usually cold steep it and add it directly to the kettle. I determine color using a similar sized glass as they would at a competition, so if it's too light, I add a little more Carafa liquid. Keep in mind it will darken when the volume is decreased too, so don't go too dark.

20 SRM isn't too light at all in my opinion.

What's your process for cold steeping the Carafa? I assume it is milled also, correct?
 
What's your process for cold steeping the Carafa? I assume it is milled also, correct?


I usually use a French press (like for coffee). I also usually grind it in a coffee grinder so it's a powder. Make sure it's dehusked or "special". Powder it, mix with room temp water for an hour or two add to kettle toward the end of boil. That's what I do at least.
 
I usually use a French press (like for coffee). I also usually grind it in a coffee grinder so it's a powder. Make sure it's dehusked or "special". Powder it, mix with room temp water for an hour or two add to kettle toward the end of boil. That's what I do at least.


Does the amount of water matter? 8-16 oz?
 
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