Morebeer M-80

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chickypad

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It appears they let you make your own decisions about mash temp. The rest is there on the ingredient sheet:

After 2 days of fermentation, we recommend that you zest and cut (3) medium sized Valencia
oranges into ½” chunks and slightly mash them. Dunk the chunks in sanitizer and allow them to
sanitize. Next, add the slightly mashed orange chunks to your fermenter. Try to keep as much of
the rind out of the fermenter as possible.

Hop schedule is all laid out on the sheet as well.
 

ILMSTMF

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Reviving this thread 7 years later :D


The instructions aren't clear (enough) about what to do with the zest. I want to put the zest in but instructions are telling us to put the flesh of the fruit in. I thought that the flesh and juice of the fruit doesn't impart as much to the final beer as the zest does. Is that orange flesh and juice detrimental to the final beer?

I was thinking of omitting the flesh from the FV and only using the colorful zest, sanitized and bagged, into the FV. Good idea? How much zest?
Thanks in advance.
 

IslandLizard

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The instructions aren't clear
Ain't that an understatement! Even 7 years later, they're still misleading, or confusing at best.

IMO, and from what I've read, adding orange flesh and juice to a fermentation yields disappointing results. What makes oranges so yummy are the sugars that accompany the aromas and flavors. Once those sugars ferment out, all that's left is a vile, sour flavor. Also much of those wonderful flavors and aromas the fruit offers are driven off when added to the fermentation. Flavor and aroma compounds may change when going through fermentation, and AFAIK, not always for the better.

Usually when adding citrus fruit to a beer, we limit it by only adding the zest (the thin outer color part of the skin), omitting the pith (white skin, underneath the zest) as well as the fruit pulp (flesh and juice) itself. The "recipe" and "instructions" don't even mention adding the zest, which for beer brewers is usually the most valuable part of the fruit.

A few years ago I added whole grapefruit peels, both zest and pith to the whirlpool of a Saison wort, with surprising and excellent results. Aside from flavor compounds, the added bitterness from the pith added a dimension that made it interesting and arguably better. It was well liked during our Guild's yearly picnic in the hot sun.

I'd say:
Add the zest to either the whirlpool, at flameout, or at 5'. Optionally, add some to the fermenter together with the dry hops, pre-steeped in vodka or just by themselves. May want to bag them with a few marbles so they don't just float.

Then eat and enjoy the juicy fruit underneath the peel! Win-win!

Perhaps some others can chime in on this M-80 recipe and how to use the Valencia Oranges.
 
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ILMSTMF

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What I wound up doing was zesting the rind of two navel oranges (valencia were not available). That didn't yield anything that looked like a large volume of zest but a little can go a long way. I put it all into a small jar and covered it in vodka. Soaked for over a week. 5 days after pitching yeast, I added the zest to the FV. Into a hop bag. The vodka got dumped in too.

It's been in keg for 2 weeks and I haven't had more than 3 pints. All of them early on. Other beers have been keeping me busy... But, those initial pours were way more bitter than I anticipated and I'm not complaining! I'll be returning to it soon. If I have any bad news, I'll report it. Otherwise, this went well!
 

IslandLizard

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5 days after pitching yeast, I added the zest to the FV. Into a hop bag. The vodka got dumped in too.
Yes, you're extracting flavors and aroma, all that goodness should go in the FV. You want to add it after fermentation is done, to prevent stripping out those volatile aromas with fermentation CO2.

those initial pours were way more bitter than I anticipated
I doubt the extra bittering being from the zest, more likely from isomerized AA acids (from the hop oils).

Tweak the timing of late kettle additions to later in the boil (closer to flameout), or move to flameout, whirlpool/hopstand, or chill somewhat before adding to the whirlpool. You can always split them up and add at different timings instead. They all give slightly different results, key being, the lower the amounts of hops spend shorter time at higher temps, the less bitterness you'll get (due to reduced AA isomerization).

My 3 last NEIPAs had too high a bitterness that I never encountered before, same recipe just different hops. So I'm gonna move more of the early (170F, hotter) whirlpool hops to be added at lower whirlpool temps (140-150F). Or even move some to the dry hops.
 

ILMSTMF

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I doubt the extra bittering being from the zest, more likely from isomerized AA acids (from the hop oils).

Tweak the timing of late kettle additions
Reiterating that I'm not complaining about the high bitterness. It's a pleasant surprise, actually! :D
 

ILMSTMF

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Yeah, 2 weeks in keg and the bitterness has calmed down notably. Still bitter but there's some flavors pushing their way through it.
Perhaps that bit of conditioning gave time to balance the beer. Or perhaps I don't know what the actual FK I'm talking about. Either way, drinks well! :-D
 

IslandLizard

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Conditioning has multiple facets. In that light, don't forget hop bite vs. bitterness.

Bitterness doesn't settle out AFAIK, but small hop particles that made it into your keg during transfer, then settled out over the next 2 weeks in your kegerator, could have caused hop bite. Once they're gone, the beer becomes less "bitey."
 
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