Moose Drool Clone tastes more like a scotch ale...

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TANSTAAFB

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I posted this in the all grain forum and got nothing, hoping I'll get a little more feedback here...

I brewed this Moose Drool clone about a month ago, been in the bottle just over a week. I had to rush fermentation a little for my taste to have plenty of beer ready for a party... This was part of a weeklong 5 batch marathon! Hit all my temps and beer tastes great, just not what I expected from a brown and not what I remember the Moose tasting like.

I understand it is still very young, but this beer tastes a lot like a scotch ale. It has a strong boozy flavor, way stronger than the gravity implies. Nice deep copper brown color, malty nose and flavor with solid bitterness. Reminds me of a lighter version of old chub from oskar blues.

Here is the recipe, what do y'all think?


11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 83.02 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 11.32 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.77 %
4.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.89 %

60 min 1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops
15 min 1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops
10 min 0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
10 min 1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 min 0.50 oz Hallertauer [3.80 %] (1 min) Hops


Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge 154.0 F

boil volume of 4.65 gal
Batch size = 5.5 gal
Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.066

OG = 1056
FG = 1016
28 IBU
.5 IBU/SG ratio
 
If it's very boozy, it sounds like you fermented a little hotter than normal. That should improve with time. Could also be due to the yeast not cleaning up after themselves, and since it's young the flavors should round out a bit. I can't comment on it beyond that because I've never had Moose Drool.
 
If it's very boozy, it sounds like you fermented a little hotter than normal. That

If only someone would've said that in the other thread you posted where you "got nothing." ;)

Just messing ya dude :D

I'm wondering if it's just a factor of being green still....

Also, Hallertauer seems a weird addition for an American Brown. I haven't used that hop much though, so not sure if a late addition of that may be the cause...
 
Local brewery Real Ale has a brown that tastes very similar to mine. Are brown ales very similar to scottish/ scotch ales? I see a lot of similarities in the recipe formulation.

After tasting the Real Ale offering, I think the booziness I noted is just a dry finish to a strong malt backbone with a balanced but firm hop bitterness. I think the Hallertauer is homage to the continental roots of this beer.
 
I'm a fan of browns (see the recipe's below my avatar ;)) - to me Moose Drool has a "smokiness" that I don't find in a lot of other browns; so I could sort of see how your brown could more resemble a scottish ale compared to Moose Drool....

What yeast did you use?
 
hmmm.....then I'm lost. I would've exepcted some of the flavors you describe if you used 1318 some other British/London strains...

1056 at your ferment temps should've left it really clean.

I'm wondering if the 4 oz. of Black Patent may be giving a flavor you may not have had before - do you use BP much? I only use 2oz. in my Moose Drool clone...
 
I would give it a month. I remember my first brown, I was not happy with it at first. Did contemplate dumping, but only for a moment. Waited about a month and a half and had a great beer. Browns can be a very hard beer to nail. In between a red and a porter. You have to be very delicate with the dark malts. I use a little crystal 75-120 whatever you have, kiln coffee, chocolate, and black. Usually a little more heavy on the first two and lighter on the second two.
 
I am certainly not displeased with this brew, it tastes great. I can't wait to see how the flavors develop and change over time.

I guess the point is more that after tasting the scotch ale flavors I went back to Daniels' book Designing Great Beers and searched these threads for various brown and scotch ale recipes and noticed a similarity in the core of both styles I hadn't put together before. This was just reinforced by Real Ale's brown having similar flavors and wondered if others have had a like experience. What aspects of the recipe might account for this?

Does anyone have a scotch ale recipe with a similar recipe profile? Just wondering how different some Browns and say a 90/-?
 
Yeah, you made quite a few adjustments to this recipe that significantly deviate from the real Moose Drool. Most significant is the yeast choice - you cannot replicate the maltiness of 1968.

Also, that's waaaaaay too much black patent for Moose Drool. The actual recipe has .2% black patent (yes, that's a decimal - two tenths of a percent). Depending on your efficiency, it equates to about a half oz.

And of course the Hallertauer is a variation.

Now, that's not to say it sounds like a bad recipe, but I wouldn't go around telling people it's a Moose Drool clone - they'll give you the "oh isn't that cute he brews his own beer, let's pat him on the back and tell him it tastes good no matter what." I'm not surprised you're getting a scotch ale flavor - sounds like you fermented a little high and fast? That'll give it some alcoholic punch, and the extra black patent could translate to a smokey flavor.
 
Yeah, you made quite a few adjustments to this recipe that significantly deviate from the real Moose Drool. Most significant is the yeast choice - you cannot replicate the maltiness of 1968.

Also, that's waaaaaay too much black patent for Moose Drool. The actual recipe has .2% black patent (yes, that's a decimal - two tenths of a percent). Depending on your efficiency, it equates to about a half oz.

And of course the Hallertauer is a variation.

Now, that's not to say it sounds like a bad recipe, but I wouldn't go around telling people it's a Moose Drool clone - they'll give you the "oh isn't that cute he brews his own beer, let's pat him on the back and tell him it tastes good no matter what." I'm not surprised you're getting a scotch ale flavor - sounds like you fermented a little high and fast? That'll give it some alcoholic punch, and the extra black patent could translate to a smokey flavor.

Thanks for the feedback.

I knew the yeast was going to be very different, but it is what I had and it is a clean yeast. Think broke college student brewing for his graduation party :rockin: (Bout freakin time...) I mashed a little high (157-158*) then brought it down slowly to 153-154* to try to balance the attenuation of this yeast by producing a more dextrinous wort.

I thought I had gotten a typo on the black patent so I upped it. Just didn't seem like .5 oz would do ANYTHING in the midst of that malt bill. Now I know :D

My temps were pretty steady in the mid sixties, not really high and fast IMO. During the most vigorous fermentation it climbed a bit, but it did go like crazy with that much yeast!!! I definitely have a dryer, smokier, boozier brew than expected but it tastes great. I think a lot will mellow with some time.

That said, I was using the recipe as a base to get into the ballpark of the style, not to create a true clone.
 
Well speaking of having beers ready quick, I highly recommend 1968. In fact, the Moose Drool clone is the recipe that turned me on to it. I now use it in most of my ales. It's a quick fermenter and I love the maltiness - it really takes the malt bill and amplifies it big time. I usually have all of my 1.060 beers in a keg within 10 days - sometimes as little as 6! (Of course, the flavor benefits from some more aging). And the beers are super clear - I hate 1056 for being such a terrible flocculator. I hate yeast bite and this strain is one of the worst culprits.
 
Bad floculation = good attenuation; its a trade off. Irish moss helps, all my beers are pretty clear. Most of my brews are pretty hoppy and I like the 1056 for dry, hoppy styles. How is the 1968 in more of a hop bomb? Does it balance better or does the malt character overpower the hops aromas and flavors?
 
You have to use more hops to get the same level of hop:malt character.

Funny you ask, I recently used the Moose Drool grain percentages to make a 1.064 India Brown Ale. I still went for 15IBUs from bittering, but added 2oz centennial at 10min and 2oz amarillo at 0min. 1oz of mixed dry hops. It's probably a 50IBU beer, and freakin AMAZING.

The hop character is big and not at all overwhelmed, but I love that it ALSO has a nice malt character. It's the best of both worlds for the types of beers I like.

I really don't care about attenuation. I like my beers slightly sweeter than most people, and I'll frequently sub 5-10% sugar to my beers if I want them to attenuate more. If I want more alcohol, I'll just have a higher OG.
 
Very useful info kanzimonson, thank you for sharing the fruits of your experience.

Part of using one yeast for several styles (besides economy) was to dial in on what different mash temps are doing to my finished product in different styles. By brewing with what I have now and saving a few bottles I can compare to the same recipe with a different yeast down the line.

It still amazes me what a small tweek can do to a recipe...like increasing the amount of black patent to 10 times the amount called for in the recipe :D
 
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