mold?

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benl560

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i started this cider 3/1 and a few days ago this showed up. what is it and how can i get rid of it. i dont notice any wierd smell or anything. its 3 gal of apple juice, 1/2 gal cherry juice, 2 cans of concntrate, 1#brown sugar and nottingham yeast.

thanks
 

Snuffalupagus

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That is a bacterial pelicle formation...

lacto maybe? did you sanatize?
 

SeamusMac

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You might be able to rack out the cider from underneath the pellicle and save the majority of the batch. Worth a try!
 
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benl560

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yea i sanatized, but i drew a sample about a week before that...curosity killed the cat i guess. do you think racking from under would work? if i added camden or something could that kill iit? i dunno, i guess ill look that up.
thanks
 
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benl560

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oh yea, thats the same stuff that sours lambics right?
 

Snuffalupagus

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oh yea, thats the same stuff that sours lambics right?


I think so - it sure looks like the intentional innoculations I see in the Lambic forum...

to the original poster - so I'm guessing you didn't sanitize your wine thief or racking cane you drew the sample with?
badness... I'm interested in what you might have done wrong so I can avoid making the same mistake. learn from someone else's misfortune as it were...

ALSO:

I'd reccomend you also post the photos in the sanitation fourm (and maybe even the lambic forum) -someone with more experiance in infections (intentional or not) may have some advice beyond carefuly racking out from under the pellicle for you. if it is a bacteria infection (and I'm pretty sure thats what you have there) racking may not work -some bacterias will fully invade the liquid, kinda like a yeast -(unlike a mold which usually floats on top)

good luck...:(
 
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benl560

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yea.. i sanitized my baster. its wierd though, i got a sample from my pilsner right before that and its fine...tastes like beer with no film. maybe i sat the baster down between the pilsner and the cider and didnt pay attention to it. im hoping it still tastes good sour or not.
youre confirming my thoughts on the bacteria though. ive wanted to get into some lambic territory and read more about it, now i may have to.
 

Beau815

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I dont know HOW they do it, you gotta have brass balls to purposely do that to any of your brews... id cry into it, maybe that will kill it?
 

Snuffalupagus

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I dont know HOW they do it, you gotta have brass balls to purposely do that to any of your brews... id cry into it, maybe that will kill it?

are you a gypsy?
only Gypsy tears will heal the sick, didn't they teach you anything in school? :D
 
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benl560

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i feel like i need to chrome plate mine just to taste this stuff...it got way worse looking. still havnt tasted it.
 

SeamusMac

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are you a gypsy?
only Gypsy tears will heal the sick...
AHAHAHAHA very nice!

On a more serious note, I have read may times that there are no harmful organisms that can live in beer that will hurt you. I don't know if this is entirely true or not but I'd be willing to try your cider as long as I didn't have to swallow any chunks.

In the gracious words of Russell Peters - "BE a MAN!"
 

Snuffalupagus

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AHAHAHAHA very nice!

On a more serious note, I have read may times that there are no harmful organisms that can live in beer that will hurt you. I don't know if this is entirely true or not but I'd be willing to try your cider as long as I didn't have to swallow any chunks.

In the gracious words of Russell Peters - "BE a MAN!"

as far as I know, this is correct.
it might taste like straight crap, but won't make you sick.
 

JoeSponge

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I think you need to put some constaints on "it won't make you sick"... evidently I have a pretty robust system, and as an over-ride of my own indiscretions, that little reptile part of my brain has issued both purge and clear cache commands when needed. I wasn't in favor of it, but I also wasn't in control of it. I survived it, so technically, I think the system reset works, but danged it if didn't take me a long time to recover. Or is that what humans call getting sick? Does "projectile" at either (or both) ends count? Oh wait, we're talking cider and beer here, not food poisoning.

OK, you'll be alright, just chug it. Mold makes cheese more valuable. Maybe you'll get lucky.
 

Snuffalupagus

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I think you need to put some constaints on "it won't make you sick"... evidently I have a pretty robust system, and as an over-ride of my own indiscretions, that little reptile part of my brain has issued both purge and clear cache commands when needed. I wasn't in favor of it, but I also wasn't in control of it. I survived it, so technically, I think the system reset works, but danged it if didn't take me a long time to recover. Or is that what humans call getting sick? Does "projectile" at either (or both) ends count? Oh wait, we're talking cider and beer here, not food poisoning.

OK, you'll be alright, just chug it. Mold makes cheese more valuable. Maybe you'll get lucky.


the organisims/pathogens that infect foodstuffs that can make one seriously Ill - (E. Coli, Samonella, botulisim, etc.) cannot survive long enough to multiply enough to excrete enough toxins (with bacterias - it's not the bug that usually makes you sick... it's what the bug poops out that actually does the damage) in to the beverge to cause "food poisoning" in Fermented beverages. the things that Can survive and multiply in a fermented beverage are usually physically benign to humans, but simply make the beverage unfit for consumption taste wise. in fact - the common lactobacillus ( a common beverage infector) ALREADY lives in the normal human gut - performing a symbiotic service... helping us digest our foodstuffs.

what the OP has on his hands is a probably a lactobacillus or maybe a brettomyeces infection - either of which will pose no heath hazard if consumed - but it might taste terrible...
 

jabumbo

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can the OP provide an update on this?


i just went to check on my batch from last fall and it looks like i have some sort of mold/bacteria floating on top. i haven't taken any action yet, but i hoped i might be able to gain some advice on this.

here is a photo


my first thought was to rack it into a new container through a strainer/filter of some sort and see how it looks/smells/tastes afterwards.


for informational sake: the cider was fermented about 10 months ago, about 1 gal of the 5 was taken out for use about 8 months ago and other than having an edge to it, it was fine. this particular batch had no additives, just an ale yeast was pitched. since the last look, it has been wrapped up in the basement.

so any thoughts/suggestions?
 

Schecter

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are you a gypsy?
only Gypsy tears will heal the sick, didn't they teach you anything in school? :D
CLEARLY you didn't go to Hogwarts, because you'd then know PHOENIX tears also heal. God...


...to stay on topic, I think the racking underneath the infection sounds like a good idea. That is, assuming its on top only?
 

jabumbo

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yes, the infection appeared to be on top only. and all the yeast was settled at the bottom. the rest seemed reasonably clear.
 

CvilleKevin

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I've racked from under mold before with no adverse consequences. Just make sure you leave all that pelicile behind.

In my experience, mold in the cider = mold nearby - usually something dank under the fridge or in the dehumidifier, a half empty beer that got left in some strange place, etc. So it probably wouldnt hurt to look for any potential sources and clean the hell out of everything.

If it dont kill you, it'll make you stronger
 

oldmate

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the organisims/pathogens that infect foodstuffs that can make one seriously Ill - (E. Coli, Samonella, botulisim, etc.) cannot survive long enough to multiply enough to excrete enough toxins (with bacterias - it's not the bug that usually makes you sick... it's what the bug poops out that actually does the damage) in to the beverge to cause "food poisoning" in Fermented beverages.
Salmonella isn't food poisoning, it's classified as a food infection because the pathogen actually does the damage (I think you might be thinking of Staphylococcus aureus). Either way, this is correct!

The only thing I'd be wary of is the mould itself or any large amount of fusel alcohols.
 

jabumbo

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for the record:

i racked out most of the cider leaving the sediment and top floaters.

checked the gravity to be 0.996 (it was 1.004 at last check ~8 months ago)

used the sample as a taste test and found that it was pretty awful. tasted really sour. still smelled like apples though.

proceeded to dump it down the drain.
 

oldmate

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Ouch.... I would have bottled some of it at least and then let it age for a bit before dumping it :(
 
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