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perrybrewnoob

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it smells like normal cider now, its bubbling but looks like small specks of white\green mold. What should i do?
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Whisky River

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Welcome. Can you tell us a little bit about this batch? That looks a lot like a Pellicle? You may find conflicting opinions on weather you should dump it or try to save it but I wouldn’t drink it. Has this happened before?
 
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perrybrewnoob

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yes its my first brew made with pears i picked. im using a 30 litre bucket with about 5 inches of space at the top. i dont think too much oxygen is a factor as it is sealed well.
the photo was taken on the 10th day of fermentation.
it had just started to smell like cider, started bubbling and developed this heavy foam, with some small pieces of mold like you find on bread.
theres no unusual smells but i was concerned about the mold even though some say its normal and most of it is yeast, it does look like pellicle as you say.

Others have told me to just scrape it off and see how it develops, so i did that but i also heard that i shouldnt do that as it can remove yeast.
i had been stiring it everyday but i stopped as people where saying that can cause over exposure to oxygen. im not sure whether to stir or not.
is there anything i can do to save it?
 

Abhishek Dewan

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Taste it and if it looks ok, transfer to secondary from the bottom if you have spigot, gently. Leave behind enough to leave pellicle in existing fermenter. Add sorbate, metasulfite and ascorbic acid and bottle or keg after 3-4 days.
I have saved a couple of batches in past like that.
 
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perrybrewnoob

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Hi thanks for your reply.
yes i tasted it and its still very sweet, judging by my hydrometer fermentation is on going. idk how though as i accidentally overheated the yeast (i forgot to allow the wort to cool down before adding it). I only realised my mistake today on my 12th day of fermentation

I have Potassium sorbate. do you think bread yeast would be worth adding even just to get some good nutrients in? im quite sure it will only be safe to dump but its worth a shot
 

Miraculix

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No problem with a pellicle. Just let it ferment. If you add potassium sorbate now, you are just stressing the yeast. You can just let it finish the fermentation and then taste of its ok. Is your vessel air tight? If not, you want to transfer to something truly airtight.
 
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perrybrewnoob

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yes the vessel is airtight.
i was going to wait till the hydrometer no longer showed change.
i heard its safer to let fermentation run its course.
i might even repitch with a bread yeast as i think i over heated the yeast stupidly when i added it.

im thinking this will atleast add some good bacteria to fight the pellicle and other possible bugs i think have taken hold due to the lack of yeast
 

Miraculix

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yes the vessel is airtight.
i was going to wait till the hydrometer no longer showed change.
i heard its safer to let fermentation run its course.
i might even repitch with a bread yeast as i think i over heated the yeast stupidly when i added it.

im thinking this will atleast add some good bacteria to fight the pellicle and other possible bugs i think have taken hold due to the lack of yeast
You can always add more yeast but don't add bread yeast. That yeast is for bread, not for making wine or perry. Buy some dedicated yeast!
 
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perrybrewnoob

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You can always add more yeast but don't add bread yeast. That yeast is for bread, not for making wine or perry. Buy some dedicated yeast!
is there a specific reason why bread yeast wouldnt work? i was advised to do it by someone with experience brewing. when i googled it everywhere said bread yeast works
 

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CKuhns

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The Pellicl is likely a result of you stressing or killing the yeast you used due to the temperature you mentioned the bacteria then catches on and competes with the yeast and or takes over.

Pellicl fermented cider can be rather good. It adds a bit of funk to your cider. Some don't care for it. I have had some that were very good.

Here is an article explaining it a bit from a beer brewers POV but most of the information also applies to cider..

 
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perrybrewnoob

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You CAN use bread yeast, but :barf:. Not recommended for flavor (tastes hot for a LONG time), yeast tolerance (tops out at around 10%), clearing... This was written by E C Kraus, a very respected name in winemaking:

ok good info thanks
 
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perrybrewnoob

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The Pellicl is likely a result of you stressing or killing the yeast you used due to the temperature you mentioned the bacteria then catches on and competes with the yeast and or takes over.

Pellicl fermented cider can be rather good. It adds a bit of funk to your cider. Some don't care for it. I have had some that were very good.

Here is an article explaining it a bit from a beer brewers POV but most of the information also applies to cider..

Thanks for the link. I skimmed the top 5 days ago and i havent had any pellicle since. its been fermenting for 15 days now so i racked it just looking to see what i can do now to make sure no dangerous bacteria are still there
 

Miraculix

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Thanks for the link. I skimmed the top 5 days ago and i havent had any pellicle since. its been fermenting for 15 days now so i racked it just looking to see what i can do now to make sure no dangerous bacteria are still there
Skimming the top does exactly nothing but oxeginate the brew, which is harmfull at this stage, especially as you have already probably a load of oxygen thriving acetic acid producing bacteria in there. There is all this random crap on the internet like "sifon the liquid away underneath it" or "skim the top to remove the bad bacteria" etc. This is nonsense, the Microorganisms are already all over the liquid when they start forming a pellicle, you cannot get rid of them this way. All you can do is alter the conditions in the brew to make it harder for them to survive, ie. altering the temperature and/or making sure that there is no oxygen available.

Dangerous bacteria are everywhere. And most of them are actually not dangerous to us in the amounts they are present. In every brew is a wild mix of microorganisms present, even under the most sanitised condition theres always a mix present. This is normal. Historically, all brews and wines have been made with this wild mix only, without any additional brewers yeast. As long as you keep the conditions within certain limits, these won't harm you. The most harmfull thing is probably the alcohol in the wine/beer/cider/perry.
 
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perrybrewnoob

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Skimming the top does exactly nothing but oxeginate the brew, which is harmfull at this stage, especially as you have already probably a load of oxygen thriving acetic acid producing bacteria in there. There is all this random crap on the internet like "sifon the liquid away underneath it" or "skim the top to remove the bad bacteria" etc. This is nonsense, the Microorganisms are already all over the liquid when they start forming a pellicle, you cannot get rid of them this way. All you can do is alter the conditions in the brew to make it harder for them to survive, ie. altering the temperature and/or making sure that there is no oxygen available.

Dangerous bacteria are everywhere. And most of them are actually not dangerous to us in the amounts they are present. In every brew is a wild mix of microorganisms present, even under the most sanitised condition theres always a mix present. This is normal. Historically, all brews and wines have been made with this wild mix only, without any additional brewers yeast. As long as you keep the conditions within certain limits, these won't harm you. The most harmfull thing is probably the alcohol in the wine/beer/cider/perry.
ok so if i want to make sure what do you reccomend? Ive just racked it but done nothing else. its got quite alot of headspace but i only have one container. I have campden tabelts and potasium sorbate, i can also heat it up. I was going to try and do a secondary ferment but my priority is definitely safety over flavour etc
 

Miraculix

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ok so if i want to make sure what do you reccomend? Ive just racked it but done nothing else. its got quite alot of headspace but i only have one container. I have campden tabelts and potasium sorbate, i can also heat it up. I was going to try and do a secondary ferment but my priority is definitely safety over flavour etc
Mate do.....

NOTHING :D

You allready did too much, slow down. This is making booze, it takes time!

The only thing you could probably do is buy yourself a smaller air tight container and fill it into that, air lock it and wait a few weeks. Then give it a gravity reading, maybe bottle and let it age a year or something like that, while having a bottle of it every other month to witness the development.
 
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perrybrewnoob

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Mate do.....

NOTHING :D

You allready did too much, slow down. This is making booze, it takes time!

The only thing you could probably do is buy yourself a smaller air tight container and fill it into that, air lock it and wait a few weeks. Then give it a gravity reading, maybe bottle and let it age a year or something like that, while having a bottle of it every other month to witness the development.
ive heard you have to add something to stop fermentation or bacteria before bottling?
 
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perrybrewnoob

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Mate do.....

NOTHING :D

You allready did too much, slow down. This is making booze, it takes time!

The only thing you could probably do is buy yourself a smaller air tight container and fill it into that, air lock it and wait a few weeks. Then give it a gravity reading, maybe bottle and let it age a year or something like that, while having a bottle of it every other month to witness the development.
yeah im not gonna bother buying other containers if its not a big deal.so far thats what ive been hearing
 
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