MJ M36 Liberty Bell, which strain?

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Kristoffer84

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Hello guys, i know that MJ just labels other yeasts. I know the M36 is a relabeled M79 Burton BUT is it still the same yeast or did they just kick M79 and labeled a simular yeast... ?

Liberty Bell also doesnt sound very english to me. Has anybody a clue what M36 finaly is? And overall question: Is that yeast strain on 22 Celsius really a fruity one ? how is it with the Fusel ? My old house yeast start Fusel at 21...

Thanky in advance guys!
 

dmtaylor

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I do not know with 100% certainty what the Mangrove Jack yeasts are repacks of, but... I do have guesses which I figure are about 90% accurate. See link below.

My guesses are that M79 was Coopers or Mauri 514, and M36 is either US-05 or S-04 (I am not sure which one yet). Given the Liberty Bell moniker, it may be more likely to be US-05. US-05 may generate a small amount of peach esters. S-04 meanwhile is a little sulphury and otherwise very clean and similar to a lager, in my experience. Fusels should not be a very big deal with either one up to 22 C.

 

dmtaylor

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According to this thread Mangrove Jack's Dry Yeast Equivalence Table Liberty Bell is *definitely the old M79 Burton Union yeast, as a liquid equivalent is *White Labs 023 Burton Ale and *Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley.

*possibly

The average apparent attenuations speak louder than words. Having never used M79, M36, WLP023, or Wyeast 1275 myself (yet), I cannot be super confident of which of the many claims come closest to reality. Anyone/everyone, please feel free to submit your OG & FG or apparent attenuations for any batches using any of these yeast strains. Then we can begin to narrow the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
 

duncan_disorderly

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M36 is not S-04 or US-05. I've used all 3 many times and they are all different.

I have no doubt about this whatsoever, and many other people have said the same. It needs to be put to bed, this.
 

dmtaylor

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M36 is not S-04 or US-05. I've used all 3 many times and they are all different.

I have no doubt about this whatsoever, and many other people have said the same. It needs to be put to bed, this.

You may be right, I may be crazy. If you or anyone tells me that M36 is more similar to one than the other, then I might try a split batch sometime vs. the more similar one to find out what the differences are.
 

duncan_disorderly

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You may be right, I may be crazy. If you or anyone tells me that M36 is more similar to one than the other, then I might try a split batch sometime vs. the more similar one to find out what the differences are.
US05 and S04 are both very clean. M36 isn't. It's not like either of them. US05 and S04 are closer to each other.

In my opinion of course.
 

dmtaylor

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US05 and S04 are both very clean. M36 isn't. It's not like either of them. US05 and S04 are closer to each other.

In my opinion of course.

Hmm... okay... I am beginning to consider the possibility that my guesses on M36 might actually be more applicable to BRY-97, which means that perhaps M44 is likely US-05, rather than the other way around?! More data needed. If anyone has good information on differences between ANY of these yeasts, I'd be curious to hear it.
 

duncan_disorderly

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My view is that M44 and Bry-97 are the same. M36 is not like any other single yeast I've used. Just as M31 and M41 have no counterparts in my opinion. MJ are not just repackaging other yeasts as they come, they can't be. You won't find a single strain equivalent of some of their yeasts.

If I was to describe M36 to someone I'd say it's like a cross between Windsor or S-33 and Nottingham. It may be a blend.

M31 and M41 are both diastaticus strains with the same stated attenuation, 82-88%. Quite specific. Which could mean they both contain the same diastaticus yeast, with something else added to each.

I just don't think there's a straight match for all the MJ yeasts, they are doing things to create unique products. In my opinion.
 

Miraculix

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My view is that M44 and Bry-97 are the same. M36 is not like any other single yeast I've used. Just as M31 and M41 have no counterparts in my opinion. MJ are not just repackaging other yeasts as they come, they can't be. You won't find a single strain equivalent of some of their yeasts.

If I was to describe M36 to someone I'd say it's like a cross between Windsor or S-33 and Nottingham. It may be a blend.

M31 and M41 are both diastaticus strains with the same stated attenuation, 82-88%. Quite specific. Which could mean they both contain the same diastaticus yeast, with something else added to each.

I just don't think there's a straight match for all the MJ yeasts, they are doing things to create unique products. In my opinion.
I used m36 a few times and I also don't think that's us05 or s04. It's most likely also not bry97 as this one is quite close to us05.

A mix of notty and Windsor could be possible imo.
 

CascadesBrewer

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I used m36 a few times and I also don't think that's us05 or s04. It's most likely also not bry97 as this one is quite close to us05.

I recently split a batch of an IPA with US-05 and M36. The yeast behaved and looked quite different during fermentation. M36 was done earlier and left more of a crusty looking layer(that I often get with English yeasts) where US-05 chugged along for several more days with its typical compact and fluffy krausen.

OG was 1.065:
  • US-05 - FG: 1.012, ABV: 7%, Atten: 80.7 %
  • M36 - FG: 1.014, ABV: 6.8%, Atten: 77.5%
As far as a taste comparison goes...in a side by side they are difficult to tell apart, but I think that is mostly because there is a lot of hop character. The M36 batch seems to have a touch more sweetness and body which reduces the apparent bitterness. I like the US-05 batch a little more, but if I swapped out the Crystal Malt for Munich malt I could see the M36 being a good fit.

I am curious if M36 is more of an American or English yeast strain. A recent Pale Ale that I made with BRY-97 hit 85% attenuation.
 

Miraculix

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I recently split a batch of an IPA with US-05 and M36. The yeast behaved and looked quite different during fermentation. M36 was done earlier and left more of a crusty looking layer(that I often get with English yeasts) where US-05 chugged along for several more days with its typical compact and fluffy krausen.

OG was 1.065:
  • US-05 - FG: 1.012, ABV: 7%, Atten: 80.7 %
  • M36 - FG: 1.014, ABV: 6.8%, Atten: 77.5%
As far as a taste comparison goes...in a side by side they are difficult to tell apart, but I think that is mostly because there is a lot of hop character. The M36 batch seems to have a touch more sweetness and body which reduces the apparent bitterness. I like the US-05 batch a little more, but if I swapped out the Crystal Malt for Munich malt I could see the M36 being a good fit.

I am curious if M36 is more of an American or English yeast strain. A recent Pale Ale that I made with BRY-97 hit 85% attenuation.
Sounds a bit like Nottingham to me.
 

CascadesBrewer

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Sounds a bit like Nottingham to me.

Could be. I don't recall the last time I used Nottingham but I have been playing with more dry yeast lately and I have a Pale Ale in the fermenter right now with Nottingham. I would say that the fermentation characteristics and appearance are very close. I have not tasted or taken a gravity reading of that Pale Ale yet.
 

dmtaylor

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What I *might* be beginning to believe is that M42 is Notty, and M36 is a blend of Notty and Windsor together. Seems silly to me too, but there you have it.

Either that, or between M42 and M36, one is Notty (blended or not) and the other is S-04. Maybe.

I'm about 80% confident that one of the two stories above is accurate.
 

duncan_disorderly

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What I *might* be beginning to believe is that M42 is Notty, and M36 is a blend of Notty and Windsor together. Seems silly to me too, but there you have it.
Why silly? Notty is pitched in many English breweries on its own, but also in combination with Windsor. Why wouldn't MJ sell those that combination as a way of giving homebrewers the advantages that breweries gain from pitching them together?
 

dmtaylor

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What I *might* be beginning to believe is that M42 is Notty, and M36 is a blend of Notty and Windsor together. Seems silly to me too, but there you have it.

For whatever it's worth, I've finally hit about the 90% confidence level that M36 = M42 + M15 = Notty + Windsor. Table has been updated as such. If I'm wrong, oh well, it won't be the first time or the last. :)
 

CascadesBrewer

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For whatever it's worth, I've finally hit about the 90% confidence level that M36 = M42 + M15 = Notty + Windsor. Table has been updated as such. If I'm wrong, oh well, it won't be the first time or the last. :)

The notation on the sheet confused me a bit. Are you saying this?
  • Windsor Ale = M15 Empire
  • Nottingham Ale = M42 New World
  • Windsor Ale + Nottingham Ale = M36 Liberty Bell

I have been wanting to do some split batch yeast trials with some dry English yeast strains. I have some of these strains on hand (M36, M15 and Nottingham). I will report back if I do any trials.
 

dmtaylor

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The notation on the sheet confused me a bit. Are you saying this?
  • Windsor Ale = M15 Empire
  • Nottingham Ale = M42 New World
  • Windsor Ale + Nottingham Ale = M36 Liberty Bell

I have been wanting to do some split batch yeast trials with some dry English yeast strains. I have some of these strains on hand (M36, M15 and Nottingham). I will report back if I do any trials.

Yes, that was my intent. Maybe I need to add a separate line for M36 now I guess. I'll think on how best to present it, anyway I'm apparently unable to update Google Docs from my work computer (dang cybersecurity) so I can't do it till later.

Experiences from trials is helpful, so thanks in advance for sharing.
 
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