Mixing Sassion and Wine Yeast (RYE Beer)

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jlangfo5

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Hey guys! I plan on brewing a rye Saisontonight with a OG of about 1.066. The problem is, the yeast that I ordered,
Wyeast Labs Belgian Saison - 3724
is notorious for stalling out at 1.035 then taking months to finish to 1.010 or below and requiring much care to keep an elevated temp of around 85 to 90. The description for it is below:

Classic farmhouse ale yeast. Spicy and complex aromatics including bubble gum. Very tart and dry on palate with mild fruit. Finishes crisp and mildly acidic. Benefits from elevated fermentation temperatures. This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 sg. Fermentation will eventually finish, given time and warm temperatures.

What I wanting to do is either one of two things, either mix the yeast with this one here when I pitch into primary, or I could wait until the sassion yeast hits its "stall point" then pitch the other yeast.


The EC-1118 strain was isolated, studied and selected from Champagne fermentations. Due to its competitive factor and ability to ferment equally well over a wide temperature range, the EC-1118 is one of the most widely used yeasts in the world.

Oenological properties and applications
The fermentation characteristics of the EC-1118 — extremely low production of foam, volatile acid and hydrogen sulfide (H2S) — make this strain an excellent choice. This strain ferments well over a very wide temperature range, from 10° to 30°C (50° to 86°F) and demonstrates high osmotic and alcohol tolerance. Good flocculation with compact lees and a relatively neutral flavor and aroma contribution are also properties of the EC-1118.

Does anyone have any advice on this matter, any recommendations? I can't really control the temp very well perhaps outside of sticking the carboy in 5 gallon bucket and adding hot water.
 
If you can't control temp, you're next strategy should be mash control. I do a 2 step, starting at 144 for 90 min, then add boiling water to bring to low 150s for 1 hr. make it fermentable!
 
Do not use the wine yeast.

The 3724 will chew thru the simple sugars leaving little for the wine yeast. The wine yeast can't ferment the more complex sugars, so will leave the beer a lot sweeter than you plan. Wine yeast is also a killer yeast (it will kill ale yeasts), so once it's added, you will have a hard time using another yeast to finish it off.

Pitch the 3724, keep it warm and see where it goes. If it sticks, you could make a starter with another ale yeast and add that, or, if you have another beer going, rack this one onto the cake of the other one to finish it off.
 
I've got two batches with 3724 in the fermenter right now. One is sitting around 1.030 and isn't moving much, the other one finished out at 1.004. The one that finished I pitched a huge starter and kept a heating pad on it, the other I wondered what the profile would be like fermenting around 75*F. Both hydro samples taste amazing, so if you have the patience and will power to keep it warm, go for it. Your efforts will be rewarded with some amazing beer afterwards.
 
Well, the problem is is that 3724 likes to get stuck even if you do keep it really warm, and I don't even have the means to do that, so I am afraid that it will get stuck and then after that it will be hard going from there.

What would happen if I was to do the two step mash at 145 for 90 mins, then 155 and for 60 mins, pitch the 3724 yeast and let it run it's course, then when it stalls, I could either add the wine yeast or pitch the yeast cake from my oktoberfest beer that i kept (white labs euro ale yeast).
 
Try you best to get the original yeast to finish by keeping the temp up..

Does anyone have any advice on this matter, any recommendations? I can't really control the temp very well perhaps outside of sticking the carboy in 5 gallon bucket and adding hot water.

If have something to hold some water and your fermenter, get an aquarium heater. I use his set up a lot and I can get my Belgians and Saisons up to almost 90 degrees using one, even in my cold basement. Just check the high end of the range before you pick which one to buy.

If that fails use 3711. It will chew through anything.When I was doing just extract steeping grain brews I had that take a Saison to 1.004.

From the Wyeast website..

YEAST STRAIN: 3711**|**French Saison

Back to Yeast Strain List

A very versatile strain that produces Saison or farmhouse style biers as well as other Belgian style beers that are highly aromatic (estery), peppery, spicy and citrusy. This strain enhances the use of spices and aroma hops, and is extremely attenuative but leaves an unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel. This strain can also be used to re-start stuck fermentations or in high gravity beers.

Origin:
Flocculation: Low
Attenuation: 77-83%
Temperature Range: 65-77F 18-25C
Alcohol Tolerance: ABV 12%
 
I will see what I can do about keep the sassion as warm as I can keep it, the temperature is rising around here, and my apartment as a closet on the balcony that could keep pretty hot. That could do the trick maybe.
 
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