Missed OG. Pissed off. Please advise.

[mangine77]

Hello,

I just tried to brew Yooper's clone of the Dogfish Head 60 minute. OG was supposed to be 1.070 and I hit 1.054. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'm brewing all-grain with a 10 gallon rubbermaid and doing batch sparges.

So I have two questions:

1.) What is the most likely reason that I missed this gravity?

I did multiple batch sparges but I think next time I'm just going to do one big batch sparge to see if that's what is wrong. I was following Beersmith which suggested 3 separate sparges. Where else am I losing this much efficiency?

2.) What steps should I take at this point to try and salvage this beer and get it close to a Dogfish 60 minute? I continued to pitch extra yeast even though I didn't hit the high gravity, so that I could add DME if I needed to.

Should I go get some DME and add it? How much?

I would really appreciate some help on this one.

 

[hamiltont]

Your grain bill, total runnings (gallons) before boil and gravity & wort temp before boil will be a good start for us to figure this one out....

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

I do my best to hit gravity. With AG, I seem to be hit or miss.

What I do is check the SG when I am ready to rack to BB. If I come in low, I add corn sugar to bump it up. It usually does not take much, I am to the point where I only have to add about a half pound, if that.

Adding sugar when you are about to rack is a little tricky. I have a pint of boiled water in the freezer getting very cold. I have another pint at boil, ready if needed. If I need the sugar, I add it to the boiling water, then add the cold water, and dump it in the keggle. I wind up with an extra quart of liquid in the keggle, but I hit gravity.

 

[humann_brewing]

Make sure to take a gravity reading going into the kettle. If you are using recipe software it should say what you should be at going into the kettle to be on target for your OG at the end of the boil.

From there I take a sample 30 minutes into the boil to see if I am still on target and make any adjustments if necessary like increase to a more rapid boil to burn more off or back it of if I need to. Last weekend I checked 30 minutes and was behind a few points so I cracked the gas up more and added about 5 minutes to the boil. I ended up hitting the target OG on the nose and my final volume too. Just keep in mind that when you pull a sample you will be taking gravity from like 200* wort so don't use a hydrometer with a temp thing on it that is how I ruined mine, it still takes gravity readings of course but the temp is broke and you will need to adjust for the huge temp calibration. It was something like 1.030 at 185* was actually 1.055 or something.

Another thing is have you dialed in what efficiency you are getting to base your recipes off? I am constantly between 82-89% so I am basing my recipes of 83% for some room for error.

 

[The Pol]

Yah I take a pre-boil gravity to make sure it matches ProMash. I track my pre-boil and post boil qtys. very accurately... I then take the post boil gravity.

This could be crush
Mash temp
Volume
PH

I mean... anything.

 

[Denny]

1.) What is the most likely reason that I missed this gravity?

I did multiple batch sparges but I think next time I'm just going to do one big batch sparge to see if that's what is wrong. I was following Beersmith which suggested 3 separate sparges. Where else am I losing this much efficiency

First, was the recipe you were brewing from at the same efficiency your system gets? You need to adjust every recipe you use to match your system's efficiency, not just use the same grain amounts. If you did that, the place to look is your crush. Crush til you're scared! Next, are you sure there wasn't "lost wort" trapped in a dead space in your system? Finally, I don't want to be disrespectful of the effort that Brad has put into Beersmith, but I find that I disagree with the batch sparge instructions it gives pretty much 100% of the time.

 

[pompeiisneaks]

yes, I would check crush... if its not fine enough, I was getting bad eff. Also, as stated, mash temps, but as mentioned, we can't give more analysis until you specify details of exactly what you did so we can see if something specific seems wrong.

 

[Pangea]

1.) What is the most likely reason that I missed this gravity?

I did multiple batch sparges but I think next time I'm just going to do one big batch sparge to see if that's what is wrong. I was following Beersmith which suggested 3 separate sparges. Where else am I losing this much efficiency?

You missed your OG because you probably didn't hit your pre-boil gravity - unless you're perfectly repetitive in your mashing. If you know your boil-off rate, you can calulate the pre-boil gravity you'd need to get to 1.070 post boil. I'll do the math below:


Let's assume you were aiming for a 5 gallon batch after 60 min boil.
Also, assume your boil-off rate is 1 gallon per hour.

That means your volume pre boil would need to be 6 gallons.

(GravityUnits 1) x (Volume 1) = (GravityUnits 2) x (Volume 2)

(GU 1) x (6 gallons) = (.070) x (5 gallons)

Do the math to find GU 1 = .058

In other words, your needed pre-boil gravity would be 1.058.


Soooo...... since you know your pre-boil gravity, you just keep sparging and transferring to the kettle until you get 1.058 wort. If you have 1.058 wort, and boil for 60 minutes, you should get damn close to 1.070 OG.

Given the above scenario, and since your wort is diluted, it sounds like you probably added to much sparge water. In fact, we can probably figure out how much extra water...

I'd estimate you have about 29% more water in your wort than you need. For a 5 gallon batch size, thats about 1.4 gallons more than your need. Is it possible you oversparged by just over a gallon? How much wort did you end up with after the boil?

Pangea

 

[humann_brewing]

Finally, I don't want to be disrespectful of the effort that Brad has put into Beersmith, but I find that I disagree with the batch sparge instructions it gives pretty much 100% of the time.

I hear you on this one too. The only thing I use it for is the initial strike water calculation then I do the rest from there.

 

[mangine77]

Thanks for all of the replies but no one answered what I should do now to try and fix this.

I used Beersmith and set efficiency at 75%. 13.5 pounds of 2 row and half a pound of marris otter. 17.38 quarts at 165 to get a mash temp of 154. Held it there for an hour.

Sparged to get pre boil volume of 7 gallons and that's what beermsmith calculated because I set it at a 5.5 gallon batch. I ended up with 5.5 gallons after the boil, so that didn't get messed up.

This beer is supposed to be dry hopped but now I probably can't do that. It's already going to be hoppy as hell because I missed my OG by so much.

So, what would you do now? I have two pounds of DME downstairs.

Should I add it and how should I do it?

Thanks for your help.

 

[humann_brewing]

Thanks for all of the replies but no one answered what I should do now to try and fix this.

I used Beersmith and set efficiency at 75%. 13.5 pounds of 2 row and half a pound of marris otter. 17.38 quarts at 165 to get a mash temp of 154. Held it there for an hour.

Sparged to get pre boil volume of 7 gallons and that's what beermsmith calculated because I set it at a 5.5 gallon batch. I ended up with 5.5 gallons after the boil, so that didn't get messed up.

This beer is supposed to be dry hopped but now I probably can't do that. It's already going to be hoppy as hell because I missed my OG by so much.

So, what would you do now? I have two pounds of DME downstairs.

Should I add it and how should I do it?

Thanks for your help.

I wouldn't do anything with this beer, but just adjust your efficiency next batch. You can still dry hop it though. Dry hopping does not add bitterness but does add aroma and more rounded bitterness which would be good since you are a little over hopped for your gravity.

 

[hamiltont]

I wouldn't do anything with this beer, but just adjust your efficiency next batch. You can still dry hop it though. Dry hopping does not add bitterness but does add aroma and more rounded bitterness which would be good since you are a little over hopped for your gravity.

Sound Advice... I wouldn't try to add anything or mess with it at this point either, other than following the original plan. I bet it turns out just fine too...

 

[mangine77]

I'm glad to hear you guys say leave it alone, but isn't it going to be extremely bitter when I missed the mark by that much??

The alcohol level is really going to be lacking compared to the IBU level isn't it??? You think it will still taste good?

 

[leboeuf]

Most IPA/APA's are around 5% alcohol; you'll be fine.

 

[humann_brewing]

I'm glad to hear you guys say leave it alone, but isn't it going to be extremely bitter when I missed the mark by that much??

The alcohol level is really going to be lacking compared to the IBU level isn't it??? You think it will still taste good?

I tried a Stone IPA when I was on my 2nd or 3rd all grain and sucked at hitting the numbers. Stone IPA is suppose to be 6.9% and mine is 5.5% with all 77 IBUs still but if you like stone IPA for it's hoppiness you would like mine too.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

A few brews ago I missed my OG almost Identically to yours. It took about 1.25 lbs of DME to make up those points. Just boil it up in about 2 cups of water, let it cool and pitch it.

 

[iXanadu]

This reply might be a tad late given your post was at 2:54pm but here goes.

If it were me, I would dump 1/2 gallon to leave 5gal in your primary. I would then calculate how much DME I need to make up the 16 pt difference and boil up a really thick wort (the 1/2 gallon your now shy) and add it in.

I hastily put 1' of DME into BTP with 1/2 gallon and get 86 points. 86/5.5 adds 15.5 points to your total volume or 1.068 or so. Do your own math (not hastily) and make the adjustment.

The only thing I'm not sure of, is how late in the process you can add gravity like this - I've only had to make adjustments once, and did it before adding my yeast.

 

[derekm]

One pound of dme will add 9 points to a five gallon batch. You may add this up until fermentation is near complete. Put dme in a flask or pot and add enough water to make a very thick wort syrup. Slowly bring to a boil, cool, and pour it in. Derek

 

[Beerbeque]

If target OG is the main thing, get a refractometer so you can check OG from your brewpot and then you can add water or boil longer in order to to hit your target OG exactly. They're cheap on ebay.

 

[mangine77]

Thanks for all the advice. I did end up adding 1lb. of DME but more importantly, I might have an idea of the problem.

When I was cleaning out my MLT (10 Gallon Rubbermaid Cooler with a braid), I realized that the bottom 2 inches of water doesn't drain out when the spigot is open. I figured with the braid that it would ( stupid or inexperience on my part I guess).

So the question is, could this be the points I'm missing in my efficiency? Is some of the highest concentrated wort just remaining at the bottom of the cooler?

Should I be tipping the cooler to get the stuff at the very bottom each batch sparge? I'm hoping this could be my issue.

Any of you that use this MLT setup, do you tip the cooler at the end of the mash and sparge. I feel like an idiot if this could be the problem.

 

[mangine77]

Anyone?? Am I way off here or doesn't anyone feel like answering??

 

[The Pol]

I will answer... no.

If you are sparging, you wont have any highly concentrated wort at the bottom of the cooler. I dont think anyone tips the cooler.

I mean you have a manifold or braid at the bottom right? So what will tipping do?

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I used to tip my old MLT a bit . It had some pretty good dead space up towards the spigot because my manifold was angled up. I would always get a good little dose of wort into the BK by doing that, but it probably didn't boost my OG by much. Probably a pint or so when it was all said and done. Try it next time and see what happens. But what that really tells you is that you need to improve the design of your MLT. My new MLT hardly leaves anything behind now that the entire manifold sits right on the bottom.

 

[MTBREWDOG]

It's more about the total finished volume of wort and the lack of sugar in the wort to ferment than what is left in the bottom of the MLT. The little bit of dead space in your MLT will hold some wort but what it sounds like to me is that your wort is more watered down than what it was supposed to be. If anything the dead space would have led to a higher OG. I use an MLT similar to yours. My efficiencies (at this point) are very low as well. I have boosted my FG by adding corn sugar at the end before.

I would agree with the others.

I have heard a lot of people say by adjusting your crush that it makes a huge difference. Your LHBS is in the business to sell grain, so why would they want to necessarily have the best crush... A poor crush would lead to selling more grain.

That's my 2 cents. Don't get discouraged. Your beer will still turn out as good if not better than what you buy in the store. Enjoy!

Cheers ,


Joe