DuncB
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Why not sell two yeasts instead of one, good strategy.
British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale
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My thoughts exactly, to the statement, "Chris is now promoting mixing strains."
Why of course he is!
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The mixed strain verdant/notti beer gets better every day. I think I'm not going to use pub too soon again. Directly pitching two packs of dry yeast while still paying less than for one pack pub is just too convenient with such a nice result.
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My thoughts exactly, to the statement, "Chris is now promoting mixing strains."
Why of course he is!
It's all part of the cycle. In the beginning, there was the stirring stick used making beer, loaded with many multi strains. Then we get to the times of separating single strains. Now we're turning back to mixing strains.
We'll get back to the stirring sticks eventually. Carry on.
monkeymath
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In any such evolution, it is worthwhile to consider the driving force behind it. I don't think the selection for single strains was always solely motivated by the quest for ultimate flavor, but often driven by rather technical demands of an industry that we don't necessarily have to the same extent. For example, a big brewery will have attempt to keep mash and boil lengths as short as possible (energy costs as well as staff required) and try whatever it takes to get the beer out as quickly as possible in order to keep up production. For us homebrewers, these points are not quite so important.
It's all part of the cycle. In the beginning, there was the stirring stick used making beer, loaded with many multi strains. Then we get to the times of separating single strains. Now we're turning back to mixing strains.
We'll get back to the stirring sticks eventually. Carry on.
The situation in bread making is probably analogous. I think most bakers, professional or at home, would agree that bread made over a timespan of one or more days using an in-house sourdough culture is in many ways superior to a bread where a large quantity of enzymes and packaged yeast was allowed to work its magic for only an hour. Nonetheless, that's how the vast majority of bread is made today (at least here in Germany and probably to an even greater extent in the US).
Homebrewers like to try and copy what "the big guys" are doing, but I think that's not necessarily always the best idea, because our goals are different.
Now, let me get back to carving my stick...
Mumathomebrew
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There's actually quite a good point for making our own brewing sticks. Soak them in the pure yeast of choice first then let them evolve naturally. Off to carve mine too.
monkeymath
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Awesome! We'll quickly come up with a manifesto and purity laws for the material, manufacturing and use of the sticks and call ourselves 'The Sticklers'.
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It's about time for me to make a suicide mix of all the english yeasties I've got in the library. Probably close to 20.
I haven't done this is a while. My learning is not to put in every yeast. If one has a POF- or an off flavor you don't like, that's probably going to come thru in the final.
One mix I quite like is the Whitbread strains. S-04 + WLP017 or the Wyeast equivalent recombines at least two of the whitbread traditional strains. Combined was much better than either seperately
I haven't done this is a while. My learning is not to put in every yeast. If one has a POF- or an off flavor you don't like, that's probably going to come thru in the final.
One mix I quite like is the Whitbread strains. S-04 + WLP017 or the Wyeast equivalent recombines at least two of the whitbread traditional strains. Combined was much better than either seperately
How did the yeast kamikaze go? @kmarkstevens
Shenanigans
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And what are your thoughts now 6 or 7 weeks later?
I have a mixed yeast slurry of LAIII and verdant. Plus a pack of MJ M42 which is supposed to be repacked Notti. So I might give this a go for a Fuller's ESB clone
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Haven't had one of these for a few weeks, will let you know next week how it developed.
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Haven't tried the yeast "suicide" yet but will. Been caught up in trekking and backpacking this summer amongst other stuff.
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It just got better.
I got massive head problems, no head at all, but taste-wise, it is a hit. I do not think that the head problem has anything to do with the yeast, I have this from time to time and still have to figure out why it comes and goes.
Shenanigans
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Cool, thanks for the update. Might try it in September when I start brewing after the Summer break. Hopefully the yeast slurry is still viable after 5 months.
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I would not count on it. In any case, do a propper starter!
You could keep that slurry fresh by fermenting a SNS starter all the way out every so often. Super simple, not much effort.
monkeymath
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Shenanigans
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Not sure what SNS is but yes I could decant and revive it with a bottle of Malzbier (Malta) to keep it going for a few more months.
monkeymath
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I find it interesting that an article claiming to "bust a myth" does not contain any references or experimental data.
Since there are several experiments that do show a significant difference in growth - e.g. Kai Tröster's experiment
https://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2012/03/03/yeast-propagation-experiment/ - I wonder how that myth is to be busted without a dedicated experiment (or reference to one) showing the contrary.
Anyway, sort of getting off track. This is about Miraculix' recipe, there's a dedicated thread for SNS starters.
I appreciate that. Although, I will point out that the shaken, not stirred starter in Kai's experiment is not a Shaken, Not Stirred.
Otherwise, yes. Back to @Miraculix's excellent recipe. I look forward to when my basement is back to English fermentation temps.
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I don't care about ambient temperature, I got a bath tub.
The ground water has 18c atm here in Bremen, I fill the bath tub, place the fermenter in it, change the water when it reaches 20c (takes about 24h) and keep doing this for three days.
After that, fermentation is almost done and room temperature it is from there on.
Just did that with my "rock hard foam bitter", an experimental bitter with 10% spelt flour, 10% chit malt and 10% rye malt, all for the foam. Also foam enhancing step mash.
With Nottingham, to make sure I catch the taste of the rye, if there is any at all.
I have the suspicion that trub carryover might decrease my foam die to unwanted fatty acids..... Let's see.
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DuncB
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@Miraculix
At least you'll be clean after 3 days in the bath.
At least you'll be clean after 3 days in the bath.
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Sparkling
.... Except for the black eye swmbo gave me because I blocked the bath tub for multiple days....
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Wait a second...Sparkling
.... Except for the black eye swmbo gave me because I blocked the bath tub for multiple days....
Did you brew on a Friday? My German ancestors said that the "weekly bath" always happened on Saturday night. By that metric I can understand your SWMBO'D's angst at disrupting her routine. If it was me, I'd be suffering more than a black eye!
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Sparkling
Actually, I did the heavy lifting on Sunday and freed the bath tub for half an hour for her Highness to indulge in some well tempered water scented with lavender flowers and other luxurious aetheric oils.
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So @Miraculix , in What's Your Favorite, you posted about using half a Notty with London. Here.
As I now finally have my Lyle's and I am trying the recipe from page 1 next, would you say you recommend a half a Notty with Verdant on this?
As I now finally have my Lyle's and I am trying the recipe from page 1 next, would you say you recommend a half a Notty with Verdant on this?
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Most definitely, yes.
However, depending on your liking, you might want to go easier on the mash in regards to fermentability when using these two yeasts. They have both an attenuation betwen 75% and 80%, depending on your wort. So I would probably just use one 68C sacharification step, instead of the 62C and 72C hoch kurz steps. The hoch kurz was incorporated by myself to account for A09 london pub`s low attenuation and my personal taste, I prefer beers generally on the dryer side. But this one will be fine, even with a single infusion mash I guess. I still would do the mash out and protein steps, for the foam. But I have problems with foam in my beers and I like foam, which means I constantly try to improve the foam of my beers, so keep that in mind as well
.I am fermenting the mentioned similar bitter atm with half a pack Nottingham and one pack Lallemand London Ale, this is also an interesting yeast. Verdant is really really fruity. London Ale not so much, so I am looking forward to seeing how this one comes out at the end. I am also using dark wheat malt instead of crystal in this one... but different storry.
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Most definitely, yes.
However, depending on your liking, you might want to go easier on the mash in regards to fermentability when using these two yeasts. They have both an attenuation betwen 75% and 80%, depending on your wort. So I would probably just use one 68C sacharification step, instead of the 62C and 72C hoch kurz steps. The hoch kurz was incorporated by myself to account for A09 london pub`s low attenuation and my personal taste, I prefer beers generally on the dryer side. But this one will be fine, even with a single infusion mash I guess. I still would do the mash out and protein steps, for the foam. But I have problems with foam in my beers and I like foam, which means I constantly try to improve the foam of my beers, so keep that in mind as well
I am fermenting the mentioned similar bitter atm with half a pack Nottingham and one pack Lallemand London Ale, this is also an interesting yeast. Verdant is really really fruity. London Ale not so much, so I am looking forward to seeing how this one comes out at the end. I am also using dark wheat malt instead of crystal in this one... but different storry.
Full disclosure: I'm a simple BIAB kinda guy and was only going to do one step anyway.
Thanks for the info. My tastes also tend toward drier, but I have the Verdant and not the London and the first try will therefore be Verdant.
Is this like a wheat biscuit/amber?
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I actually don't really know. Taste test of the grain went into the direction of dark Munich. Probably something in between dark Munich and biscuit just made out of wheat.
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Don't forget the notty, otherwise, fruit bomb!
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Yep, I got one of each Notty/Verdant with the grain order.
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Btw. Nothing won't with fruit bombs obviously, but one has to like them to enjoy them.
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I finally made it @Miraculix . It looks lovely. Extracting Lyles from container was amusing, but I really probably don't need every last ml. Mashed single infusion full volume BIAB at 152 as a starting point for this recipe with MO, TF drark crystal, torrified wheat and Lyles. Sitting in the chamber at 68F. It cleared beautifully in hydrometer sample jar.
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Nice one! Colour looks spot on! Hope you like it! If you like it from the start n, restrain yourself, keep a few bottles and just wait a few weeks. It is usually best after month two till month three.... I rarely manage to keep it that long though.
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Coming along nicely, the exotherm is done, we're barely 48hr in, I won't be rushing this. My schedule won't allow me to keg until day 14 anyway.
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I have the feeling that this one actually benefits a bit from being taken off the yeast asap as more esters area kept this way. This yeast seems to metabolize some of them otherwise.
But then you risk having a not fully attenuated beer.
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Hm. Well I only have time day 7 or day 18+.
There's a ton of conversation in this thread regarding fermentation temps, timing, the creation of esters, and the loss thereof.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...emps-and-profiles-cybi-other-thoughts.221817/
