British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
Hm. Well I only have time day 7 or day 18+.
Both would be fine. If you could rouse the yeast on day 3, that would help to finish on time. Pub floccs so well that it sometimes leaves some sugar in suspension that it will continue to metabolize sloooooowly within the next two to four weeks. I've had bottles overcarb because of this, but I really pushed it. I think I bottled this batch on day four or five. I actually bottle usually after seven to nine days in general as my brews are usually lower og and they're usually finished after three or four days anyway.
 

bwible

I drink, and I know things
HBT Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
2,359
Reaction score
5,217
Location
Oxford, PA
You’ve heard of the kitchen sink brown ale recipe - where you gather up all those little bags and packages that have an ounce of this and a couple ounces of that left in them and dump them all together and make a beer? I think I have enough of them that I’m going to put them with some golden promise base malt I have left and see if I can come up with a dark mild.

I have small packages of crystal 40 and 120, biscuit, carapils, caramunich, aromatic, melanoidin, roasted barley and chocolate. Melanoidin might not really belong but its only a little.

I have some British hops.

I figure I’ll shoot for about 1.040, single hop addition for 90 minutes targeting about 25 IBU and I have a Wyeast 1335 British Ale II.

This is basically a starter beer to get yeast built up to do this years Barleywine, which I’ve decided will be an English barleywine.
 

DuncB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2019
Messages
2,797
Reaction score
1,623
Location
Paremata New Zealand
Sounds like a good plan for your starter, it says apparent alcohol tolerance of 10% so in the right zone.
I made a six litre starter for my recent english barleywine and really felt like a microbrew.
 

balrog

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
8,308
UPdate. Brewed 9/19, kegged+carbed 10/1, into keezer 10/12, now about 20 pints into the ~38 pints in the keg. Very nice, still not super clear, definitely has the marmalady thing going, bigger hit with the tennis crowd than I expected -- there are 3 distinct demographics there with the light wheat (blue mooners) the hoppy (Braufessors hoppy wheat) and the darks (dry stout or altbier). I used the orig recipe but had to sub Thomas Fawcett dark crystal 81L as I couldn't get Crisp 57L, and I used EKG. It is very nice, I will make it again.
1667340483483.png
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
UPdate. Brewed 9/19, kegged+carbed 10/1, into keezer 10/12, now about 20 pints into the ~38 pints in the keg. Very nice, still not super clear, definitely has the marmalady thing going, bigger hit with the tennis crowd than I expected -- there are 3 distinct demographics there with the light wheat (blue mooners) the hoppy (Braufessors hoppy wheat) and the darks (dry stout or altbier). I used the orig recipe but had to sub Thomas Fawcett dark crystal 81L as I couldn't get Crisp 57L, and I used EKG. It is very nice, I will make it again.
View attachment 785212
Looks good!
 

OssianOtt

Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2022
Messages
6
Reaction score
7
Location
Sweden
Brewed a tweaked version of this, muskovadosugar instead of syrup, EKG for hops, Windsor yeast. Amped up to a 5,1 ABV beer. No water treatment (don't know how to do) but tweaked the hops for the stronger beer. It turned out really nice! Fresh and easygoing. Will probably brew again
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
Brewed a tweaked version of this, muskovadosugar instead of syrup, EKG for hops, Windsor yeast. Amped up to a 5,1 ABV beer. No water treatment (don't know how to do) but tweaked the hops for the stronger beer. It turned out really nice! Fresh and easygoing. Will probably brew again
Glad that you liked it! I bet you would have liked it even more with the intended abv. This beer is perfectly balanced at about 4%. If you make it stronger, it doesn't really work that way anymore.
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
My first attempt came in 1.043 to 1.007 with one Verdant and half Notty, 4.75%. I'm going to assume same attenuation for second attempt and try to dial back to 4.0% ABV, but it was really good the first time.
You got the bigger attenuation because of Nottingham, that helps. Next time, a little bit less malt and higher mashing temperature and the beer should be even better. .... Or maybe the same but with lower abv., Which would be a win in my books.
 

balrog

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
8,308
By now, I was to have already duplicated the @Miraculix Classic English Ale, but blast and damn if the local grocer no longer had Lyles and I refuse to deviate from what worked so well the first time.

Lyles is being Amazoned.

I hate supply chain issues.
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
By now, I was to have already duplicated the @Miraculix Classic English Ale, but blast and damn if the local grocer no longer had Lyles and I refuse to deviate from what worked so well the first time.

Lyles is being Amazoned.

I hate supply chain issues.
I might have an easy fix for that. It's easy enough to make it at home beside the boil. I'll write it down later, when I'm at my pc.
 

balrog

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
8,308
I might have an easy fix for that. It's easy enough to make it at home beside the boil. I'll write it down later, when I'm at my pc.
While I did make some #2 ish invert once, it was a royal pain to extricate from the mason jar on brew day, heating and soaking and scraping and lions and tigers and bears oh my. Lyles is infinitely easier.
 

DBhomebrew

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Messages
2,681
Reaction score
5,043
Location
St Louis, MO
While I did make some #2 ish invert once, it was a royal pain to extricate from the mason jar on brew day, heating and soaking and scraping and lions and tigers and bears oh my. Lyles is infinitely easier.

Hmm. I just pour some hot water or wort into the jar and let it dissolve.
 

balrog

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
8,308
I thought that since the Mason jar was in the brew I should somehow come up with a Geordie Mason Dixon joke name but my Muse was on vacation.
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
By now, I was to have already duplicated the @Miraculix Classic English Ale, but blast and damn if the local grocer no longer had Lyles and I refuse to deviate from what worked so well the first time.

Lyles is being Amazoned.

I hate supply chain issues.
Easy Number 2 invert:

Put the desired amount of raw, untreated sugar into a small pot. It must be the brown sugar, but not the dark brown one. And it must be quality sugar, no cheap stuff. It must come from sugar cane. Use demerara sugar. You can add 10% - 20% of muscuvado sugar, if you like. Add water, boil till dissolved. Do not use too much water, the result should be a bit like a sirup. Add a dash of lemon juice. Boil the whole thing for about 20 minutes, add a bit more water, if it starts to burn (too late obviously :D) or becomes to thick. You will get a feeling for it. At the end, BE VERY CAREFUL, add some baking soda to neutralise the acid. This is an important step, do not use too much baking soda. If you taste the sirup and it still tastes like baking soda, you used too much. You shouldnt be able to detect any acid/lemon and also no baking soda, if done right.

BE CAREFUL IT FOAMS LIKE HELL!!!!

This stuff is about 115 C hot at this point and it will foam because of the baking soda. Be really carefull. Use a big pot.

Continue boiling it for a few minutes, add some water to liquify it further at the end and then dump it into the boil wihtin the last ten minutes or so.
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,866
Reaction score
3,559
Location
UK
BE CAREFUL IT FOAMS LIKE HELL!!!!

This stuff is about 115 C hot at this point and it will foam because of the baking soda. Be really carefull. Use a big pot.
It's not the baking soda that makes it foam, sugar solutions will foam like crazy as you heat them around 110°C even without baking soda - just making normal caramel you need a pot that's something like 15:1 of the weight of sugar (ie 3 litres/quarts for 200g/8oz sugar).

For dissolving the sugar, start off at 1:2 (ie 100ml water to 200g sugar) which should be enough (it's a saturated solution at room temperature) but see how you go.
 

hout17

Crush it REAL Good
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
1,093
Reaction score
3,255
Location
N of Denver
Brewing this next week I'll let you know how it goes. Picking up ingredients tomorrow at my LHBS and have golden syrup coming from Amazon. Going with the A09 Pub yeast.
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
It's not the baking soda that makes it foam, sugar solutions will foam like crazy as you heat them around 110°C even without baking soda - just making normal caramel you need a pot that's something like 15:1 of the weight of sugar (ie 3 litres/quarts for 200g/8oz sugar).

For dissolving the sugar, start off at 1:2 (ie 100ml water to 200g sugar) which should be enough (it's a saturated solution at room temperature) but see how you go.
The baking soda neutralises the acid from the lemon juice. During this reaction co2 is generated which instantly makes the sirup foam up big time. So technically it's not the baking soda, you're correct, it's the combination of the acid and the baking soda. It happens really quick. One must be very careful at that point.
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,866
Reaction score
3,559
Location
UK
The baking soda neutralises the acid from the lemon juice. During this reaction co2 is generated which instantly makes the sirup foam up big time. So technically it's not the baking soda, you're correct, it's the combination of the acid and the baking soda. It happens really quick. One must be very careful at that point.

You're missing my point, which is that you get crazy foaming by heating a sugar/water mix *without adding baking soda or acid*. I guess it's CO2 from thermal decomposition of the sugars, but obviously you will get more if you add baking soda and acid to the mix.
 

cire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
663
Reaction score
517
Location
UK
There is proof for all of this.

Heat 1 pint of water slowly in a large pan while gently adding 2 pounds of demerara (or other light colored cane sugar) and stir. When the mixture reaches 150F it should be observed to be almost totally dissolved. (Should the pan be cooled at this point, the sugar will begin to slowly recrystalize and return close the original ingredients). By increasing the heat for a prolonged period, sucrose will begin separating into glucose and fructose, known as inversion. The rate of this change will increased by raised temperature and/or lowered pH, the latter option being by far the quicker.

Stir in a heaped teaspoon of citric acid and continue heating to a simmer, the sugar solution should been seen to be totally dissolved after the acid addition. Simmer gently for 15 minutes, then stir in up to 10% more sugar. When completely dissolved, remove the heat. Slowly add 2 grams of sodium bicarbonate in stages, which releases masses of CO2 while lowering pH to around 5. The mixture when cool will not form crystals, as would sucrose despite a 10% addition due to the inversion process
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
You're missing my point, which is that you get crazy foaming by heating a sugar/water mix *without adding baking soda or acid*. I guess it's CO2 from thermal decomposition of the sugars, but obviously you will get more if you add baking soda and acid to the mix.
I see. That is correct. My main point was to underline that, when adding the baking soda, it is basically a foam "explosion" which has to be accounted for. It cannot really be controlled once the baking soda has been added while foaming of the whole liquid because of the heat can be dowregulated by turning the herat down. Anyway, main point: Use a pot that is at least five times the volume of your sirup, more does not hurt!
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,866
Reaction score
3,559
Location
UK
blast and damn if the local grocer no longer had Lyles and I refuse to deviate from what worked so well the first time.

Lyles is being Amazoned.

I hate supply chain issues.
My understanding is that the various websites catering to British expats are the best place to get it in the US. And FWIW if anyone is in the SE US, I've seen a picture of the British section at a Publix store which had it.
 

Erik the Anglophile

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
1,128
Reaction score
1,430
Location
Pålänge, Sweden
I'm doing some trials for approximating old styley invert aswell, but I can somewhat easily get my hands on Billingtons Demerara and light/dark muscovado.
Gonna try a 50/50 mix of Demerara/light muscovado for #2 and use it in a bitter that I am gonna brew tomorrow, using the more "authentic" inversion method.
@Northern_Brewer if you were to guess just between the thumb and the arse, how much baking soda per 100gram of sugar is advisable to use for neutralising? I usually make invert for one batch the day before brewing and would like to have some idea of what to calculate on.
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
I'm doing some trials for approximating old styley invert aswell, but I can somewhat easily get my hands on Billingtons Demerara and light/dark muscovado.
Gonna try a 50/50 mix of Demerara/light muscovado for #2 and use it in a bitter that I am gonna brew tomorrow, using the more "authentic" inversion method.
@Northern_Brewer if you were to guess just between the thumb and the arse, how much baking soda per 100gram of sugar is advisable to use for neutralising? I usually make invert for one batch the day before brewing and would like to have some idea of what to calculate on.
I'm not the person you asked, but the amount of baking soda necessary is depending on the type of acid and the amount of acid used. You want the baking soda to neutralise the acid. Don't ask me how to calculate it exactly, I got no idea. I just throw in a quarter to half a teaspoon, dissolve it completely, stir it, and give it a taste test. If I don't taste acidity/lemon and also no baking soda, than I call it enough. Too much baking soda can be corrected with a bit of acid and vice versa.
 

Northern_Brewer

British - apparently some US company stole my name
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
3,866
Reaction score
3,559
Location
UK
if you were to guess just between the thumb and the arse
Heh, I'm always fascinated by the phrases used by different languages that don't translate directly, presumably this is a Swedish phrase? I guess the nearest equivalent in British English is a back-of-a-fagpacket calculation, or just fagpacket calculation - but that only works in British English where fag is slang for a cigarette, it's something else in US English....

But yep, it's slightly a question of trial and error, you can work it out but it depends on what acid and base you're using.
 

cire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Messages
663
Reaction score
517
Location
UK
I thought sodium bicarbonate was a base, which raises pH.
Sorry, yes, my slip. A spoon of citric acid will have reduced pH to approaching 2 while sodium bicarbonate will raise it to about 5.

Thank you.
 
OP
OP
Miraculix

Miraculix

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
5,650
Location
Bremen
Heh, I'm always fascinated by the phrases used by different languages that don't translate directly, presumably this is a Swedish phrase? I guess the nearest equivalent in British English is a back-of-a-fagpacket calculation, or just fagpacket calculation - but that only works in British English where fag is slang for a cigarette, it's something else in US English....

But yep, it's slightly a question of trial and error, you can work it out but it depends on what acid and base you're using.
Don't forget the fags! The ones from the butcher! Never had one, but was giggling like a little girl when I read the sign the first time :D.
 
Top