British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale

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Brooothru

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I'm afraid that I didn't go to any brewery although I lived close to London for almost five years!

No I don't use any other agents, no SMB, no brewtan. I think that they are not necessary and may have detrimental impacts that we cannot really foresee. I like it to keep things as simple as possible and I don't see any reason to add other substances if one already seems to do the job.
I agree with minimizing things that go into the brew mix. However, Brewtan appears to settle out into the trub. The clarity of wort coming out of the mash, is near brilliant. Of course the boil adds hot and cold break later, but the late boil Trifecta makes most of that trub drop like a rock during a :20 minute whirlpool.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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I agree with minimizing things that go into the brew mix. However, Brewtan appears to settle out into the trub. The clarity of wort coming out of the mash, is near brilliant. Of course the boil adds hot and cold break later, but the late boil Trifecta makes most of that trub drop like a rock during a :20 minute whirlpool.
Yes, if you whirlpool that might be correct, but I biab and dump everything into the fermenter. Hops are in a sock and removed.

Also, the brewtan just gets proteins out of the wort. If there's no oxygen to oxidise them, the proteins shouldn't cause much problems when they stay in the wort or drop out with the yeast in the fermenter. So not really of interest for me.
 

cmac62

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I remember reading somewhere on here (looked but could not find) that AA by itself has a risk of being an oxidizer instead of a scrubber and that is why the K/SMB is used to off set this possibility. I may be remembering wrong, but less than a gram of KMB with the same amount of AA in the mash and late boil has been working for me. Then when I transfer to the keg I use a small amount of AA for fast acting O scrubbing. :mug:
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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I remember reading somewhere on here (looked but could not find) that AA by itself has a risk of being an oxidizer instead of a scrubber and that is why the K/SMB is used to off set this possibility. I may be remembering wrong, but less than a gram of KMB with the same amount of AA in the mash and late boil has been working for me. Then when I transfer to the keg I use a small amount of AA for fast acting O scrubbing. :mug:
We are getting on to the subject in the AA thread. At the moment it looks like everybody heard something like this somewehere but that no proof can be found that this is actually true.
 

cmac62

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We are getting on to the subject in the AA thread. At the moment it looks like everybody heard something like this somewehere but that no proof can be found that this is actually true.
Also, that the AA is a quick acting scrubber and the meta is a slow acting scrubber, not sure if I mixed this up or not. Is there an AA thread? :mug:
 

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I thought this might be a good place to ask this. I plan to brew this beer next. I found the Pub yeast at a LHBS. 😄 They had Whitbread Goldings hops. No other goldings varieties so I got that. Research indicates it’s not really a goldings variety but definitely English. Anyone have experience with this hop variety? AA is 8.8. per the label. I’m wondering if I should try and get some EKG and use for late additions. One chart I saw showed the flavor profiles being similar with EKG having more citrus.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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I thought this might be a good place to ask this. I plan to brew this beer next. I found the Pub yeast at a LHBS. 😄 They had Whitbread Goldings hops. No other goldings varieties so I got that. Research indicates it’s not really a goldings variety but definitely English. Anyone have experience with this hop variety? AA is 8.8. per the label. I’m wondering if I should try and get some EKG and use for late additions. One chart I saw showed the flavor profiles being similar with EKG having more citrus.
I never heard of that hop. The alpha amount seems to be high for "normal" Goldings, they are usually between 4% and 5% alpha acid. At least the ones I had, somebody else might chime in and correct me, if I'm wrong.

There are actually not other real Goldings, the ones I mention in the recipe are actually normal Goldings, but from a specific farm. Stirian Goldings, or how they are called are a completely different variety and Est Kent Goldings are normal Goldings, grown in East Kent, a specific location in, if I remember correctly, the south east of England.

So at the end, it is either real Dolgins, or something else. If it is mainly a noble hop character you are getting from it, you are good to go. It obviously won't be the same as with Goldings, but all the good noble hops fit well into the picture. I have brewed this with Saaz, Mittelfrüh, Perle...... All work well. My favourite was Goldings, but not by much and could be also confirmation bias because British ale - British hop.

I am thinking of brewing this beer once with cluster, to see where this would lead us. Or add a small amount of williamette to the late addition. Just to get a hint of that American hop flavour.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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Quick google search showed this:

" Whitbread Golding wurde 1911 gezüchtet und auf einer Fläche angebaut, die den Whitebreads gehörte. Whitbread Golding ist zwar kein echter Golding, dafür sind seine Aromaattribute dem Golding ziemlich ähnlich. In den 1950ern wurde diese Sorte großflächig angebaut, als die Welke die Sorten Fuggles und Golding schwächte."

So it is similar to Goldings, but not real Goldings. You should be good to use it. It has some history, it was once grown in the UK on big scale because the real Goldings and Fuggles were all becoming sick. Now I also want to brew with it :D Lucky you!
 
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Miraculix

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Northern_Brewer

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Whitbread Goldings Variety is universally known as WGV, and no, it isn't a real Golding. It's unusual for British hops in that it's about the only non-landrace hop that didn't originate at Wye, but you should perhaps think of it as the only survivor from that generation of hops like Janus and Defender which were planted out of desperation in the face of the verticilium epidemic after WWII.

The only real requirement was a hop that was resistant to wilt, things like flavour and pickability were ignored in the face of an existential threat to hopgrowing in the UK - WGV's big advantage was that it had the backing of Whitbread, and at one point in the mid-1960s it was the biggest hop in England after Goldings and Fuggles. But then Wye developed disease-resistant varieties that were better in other ways, like Target and Challenger, and WGV rather faded away.

It remains dirt cheap, and if you want a cheap way to make a beer that's tastes kinda English, then it's your hop. But I must admit I'm not the greatest fan, although its reputation isn't helped by its association with the worst time of British beer and one of the least inspiring breweries of that period. Since it had some farnesene, which Fuggles has but Goldings doesn't, it was always thought to be a Fuggles derivative but the latest genetic work suggests it has some Goldings parentage.

But it's still not a real Goldings, no more than Bramling Cross or Target are Goldings.
 

bwible

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Styrian Goldings is not a “real” British hop either. How many recipes is that in? Many.

I’m in America and have been finding British hops hard to come by lately. First Gold is one of my favorites and nobody here has it. And we NEVER see things like Bramling Cross. Most of the places here have the very basics. Kent Goldings, Fuggles, Target, Challenger. And thats it.

I feel lucky when I can find Progress, Pilgrim or other British hops. I don’t know if its because we’re at the end of a year waiting for a new harvest or what. I mostly blame it on the American haze craze because every store is buying everything from New Zealand for the haze heads over and above everything else. I can’t count the number of those hops, but I pretty much have 4 British hops to choose from.

If I got some WGV I would use it and be happy about it. But I don’t have the history and perspective @Northern_Brewer does.
 
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kmarkstevens

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@bwible My experience is that the big on line supply houses constantly have First Gold on sale. I read somewhere on these boards that Northern Brewer and Midwest Brewing Supplies are both liquidating their stock of First Gold. I just picked up 4 pounds at around $3 per pound (sold in 8 oz increments).

First Gold is somewhere around 8% alpha. I've gotten to where I use First Gold as my english bittering hop, and then finish with EKG, Fuggles, BX or First Gold depending on my mood.
 

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Styrian Goldings is not a “real” British hop either. How many recipes is that in? Many.

I’m in America and have been finding British hops hard to come by lately. First Gold is one of my favorites and nobody here has it. And we NEVER see things like Bramling Cross. Most of the places here have the very basics. Kent Goldings, Fuggles, Target, Challenger. And thats it.

I feel lucky when I can find Progress, Pilgrim or other British hops. I don’t know if its because we’re at the end of a year waiting for a new harvest or what. I mostly blame it on the American haze craze because every store is buying everything from New Zealand for the haze heads over and above everything else. I can’t count the number of those hops, but I pretty much have 4 British hops to choose from,

If I got some WGV I would use it and be happy about it. But I don’t have the history and perspective @Northern_Brewer does.
Order from Stocks Farm, HOME - Stocks Farm. They have Target, Pilgrim, Phoenix, Goldings, as well as Jester, Olicana and others. They ship to the US and offer both T-90 and whole cone.
 
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bwible

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Thank you, I’ll have to look around again

[edit] As usual, you guys are the best. I just ordered a pound of First Gold and filled in some others I was after. Thanks again
 
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bwible

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There are SO many new hops now, I don’t know how anybody can keep up.

Jester and Olicana are 2 that are new to me. What I found on a web search says they are more “new world” and have those “tropical” flavors. I guess thats whats being bred into all the newer hops now.

I understand that British beer is taking on more American character these days. And I get it - People like NEIPA. But if I wanted American hop flavor I would just use American hops. I’m in America. I can get all the American hops I want. If I wanted tropical flavor I’d be buying all the New Zealand hops like so many other people.

Thats the whole point of buying British hops for these beers. They are not American or New Zealand hops. I’m trying to brew approximations of beers I can’t easily get here that aren’t supposed to have American and New Zealand flavors.

I said before its funny how everybody always wants what they don’t have. Me included.
 
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Miraculix

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There are SO many new hops now, I don’t know how anybody can keep up.

Jester and Olicana are 2 that are new to me. What I found on a web search says they are more “new world” and have those “tropical” flavors. I guess thats whats being bred into all the newer hops now.

I understand that British beer is taking on more American character these days. And I get it - People like NEIPA. But if I wanted American hop flavor I would just use American hops. I’m in America. I can get all the American hops I want. If I wanted tropical flavor I’d be buying all the New Zealand hops like so many other people.

Thats the whole point of buying British hops for these beers. They are not American or New Zealand hops. I’m trying to brew approximations of beers I can’t easily get here that aren’t supposed to have American and New Zealand flavors.

I said before its funny how everybody always wants what they don’t have. Me included.
We are definitely on the same page here. If I want an English beer, I want that continental, noble hop character, not American fruit punch. Unless I want a little tiny bit of that as well... which is rare, but I am toying around with the idea of brewing a MB with cluster or cascade.

Anyway, my workaround if I do not have UK hops is Saaz or Mittelfrüh. If I do not have those, I use Perle. Basically all these noble hops do very well in English bitters, they all have a bit of unique traits, but the overall picture of these is quite similar to me so I have no problem of using any German variety that is also used traditionally for late additions, as a replacement for a British hop, or whatever else comes from the same direction (Perle).

Edit: Probably even Magnum or CTZ should work here.
 
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DBhomebrew

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We are definitely on the same page here. If I want an English beer, I want that continental, noble hop character, not American fruit punch. Unless I want a little tiny bit of that as well... which is rare, but I am toying around with the idea of brewing a MB with cluster or cascade.

Anyway, my workaround if I do not have UK hops is Saaz or Mittelfrüh. If I do not have those, I use Perle. Basically all these noble hops do very well in English bitters, they all have a bit of unique traits, but the overall picture of these is quite similar to me so I have no problem of using any German variety that is also used traditionally for late additions, as a replacement for a British hop, or whatever else comes from the same direction (Perle).

Edit: Probably even Magnum or CTZ should work here.

Plenty of historical precedent for non-UK hops in Ron's treasure trove. German nobles, US Cluster, etc. And that's before British brewing production outpaced UK hop production.
 

bwible

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We are definitely on the same page here. If I want an English beer, I want that continental, noble hop character, not American fruit punch. Unless I want a little tiny bit of that as well... which is rare, but I am toying around with the idea of brewing a MB with cluster or cascade.

Anyway, my workaround if I do not have UK hops is Saaz or Mittelfrüh. If I do not have those, I use Perle. Basically all these noble hops do very well in English bitters, they all have a bit of unique traits, but the overall picture of these is quite similar to me so I have no problem of using any German variety that is also used traditionally for late additions, as a replacement for a British hop, or whatever else comes from the same direction (Perle).

Edit: Probably even Magnum or CTZ should work here.
Perle is one of my all time favorite hops. It is so versatile I use it in everything from American Pale Ales to lagers, etc.

Willamette could fill in for Fuggle. I’m not sure there’s any good substitute for EKG or First Gold, except swapping those 2 out for each other. I wonder how things like Liberty, Crystal, or Mt. Hood would work. Those are the American “noble hop” substitutes.
 
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Miraculix

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Perle is also my one hop on a lonely island hop. I also literally use it for everything :D
 
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Miraculix

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Plenty of historical precedent for non-UK hops in Ron's treasure trove. German nobles, US Cluster, etc. And that's before British brewing production outpaced UK hop production.
Yep, that is where my cluster idea came from. To my knowledge the American hops were mainly used for bittering additions though, as this grapefruit/lemon-ish aroma that we nowadays like, was considdered an off-flavour at that time (at least that's what I read...).
 

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A few years back I used Liberty to good effect in British Style beers. Also many noble European hops are regularly in my ales which, without exception, work well.
 

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I’m in America and have been finding British hops hard to come by lately. First Gold is one of my favorites and nobody here has it. And we NEVER see things like Bramling Cross. Most of the places here have the very basics. Kent Goldings, Fuggles, Target, Challenger. And thats it.

I feel lucky when I can find Progress, Pilgrim or other British hops. I don’t know if its because we’re at the end of a year waiting for a new harvest or what. I mostly blame it on the American haze craze

It's no one thing. The British hop industry has had a tough time of it lately, partly because of the fashion for Citra-Mosaic bombs but also British beer is unusually dependent on draught sales in pubs - on-sales have only just dipped below 50% here, whereas in eg Germany about 20% of beer is sold in bars. So lockdowns have hit the beer industry harder here than in some other places, which has meant a lot of beer not being made and overhangs of stock at wholesalers etc. I also get a bit of a sense that retailers have been caught out a bit by the speed of the switch to Citra-Mosaic, which has left them with lots of stock of British hops - I'm seeing a lot of 2019, even the odd 2018 still for sale (except for cool new kids like Harlequin which TMM has 2021), whereas US hops are almost all on 2020. So I suspect they've not been replenishing in the same way, and things like Northdown are getting hard to find at the moment.

But you also have the general problems with international freight due to the pandemic, and the specific problems of the UK imposing trade sanctions on itself thanks to Brexit, all the import/export people have been focussed on important stuff like maintaining supplies of drugs and water treatment chemicals from Europe rather than handling the odd shipment of hops.
 

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Styrian Goldings is not a “real” British hop either. How many recipes is that in? Many.

I’m in America and have been finding British hops hard to come by lately. First Gold is one of my favorites and nobody here has it. And we NEVER see things like Bramling Cross. Most of the places here have the very basics. Kent Goldings, Fuggles, Target, Challenger. And thats it.

I feel lucky when I can find Progress, Pilgrim or other British hops. I don’t know if its because we’re at the end of a year waiting for a new harvest or what. I mostly blame it on the American haze craze because every store is buying everything from New Zealand for the haze heads over and above everything else. I can’t count the number of those hops, but I pretty much have 4 British hops to choose from.

I buy the 4 oz packs of hops from Farmhouse; they have lots of interesting ones and they have some UK hops available, including Bramling Cross, Fuggle, and Golding. (I have way too many packs of hops in the freezer) No First Gold, but there might be something like it, I didn't read all the descriptions of the ones I've never heard of
Hops, 4 Oz and 1 Lb packs - Page 2 (farmhousebrewingsupply.com) HTH
 

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Hopgrowers are, like most businesses, hardly altruistic. They grow what sells, which is usually dictated by futures contracts with breweries, not home brewers.

Olicana and Jester are products of Faram's Research Project and have been around for more than a few years. With many British brewers chasing those more modern hop varietals, it is hardly suprising that British growers want to be in on the action. But acreage devoted to hop cultivation in England is decreasing, cask ale is declining, and more modern style have eclipsed the older styles in the homebrewing community. It will be interesting to see how long these older varieties remain economically feasible.


Many American hops are closely related to German and English hops, so if you can't obtain the "real thing" you might want to investigate things like Willamette, Mt. Hood, US Goldings, Galena, Cluster. It is, after all, what English brewers would have done.:)
 
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Miraculix

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At the end, some hops might end in a niche market, but a niche market is still a market.... Yes, looking at you chevallier malt!
 

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I buy the 4 oz packs of hops from Farmhouse; they have lots of interesting ones and they have some UK hops available, including Bramling Cross, Fuggle, and Golding. (I have way too many packs of hops in the freezer) No First Gold, but there might be something like it, I didn't read all the descriptions of the ones I've never heard of
Hops, 4 Oz and 1 Lb packs - Page 2 (farmhousebrewingsupply.com) HTH
Glad to know I'm not the only person to be afflicted with "hopsitosys": the compulsive need to obtain and store in mechanized refrigeration units copious amounts of the vegetal byproducts of humulus lupulus. Sufferers display a conscious awareness of the futility of the syndrome, and yet persist in behaviors which result in an excess inventory of frozen consumable samples, many of which will go unused past their expiration, in dark recesses of common freezers, much to the chagrin of their significant mating pair partner. There is no known cure for this malady.
 
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Getting another batch of pub ale ready for a brew this weekend. I ordered some of the proper grains for this recipe this time so should be darn close to the original.
20220224_184509.jpg
 

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Glad to know I'm not the only person to be afflicted with "hopsitosys": the compulsive need to obtain and store in mechanized refrigeration units copious amounts of the vegetal byproducts of humulus lupulus. Sufferers display a conscious awareness of the futility of the syndrome, and yet persist in behaviors which result in an excess inventory of frozen consumable samples, many of which will go unused past their expiration, in dark recesses of common freezers, much to the chagrin of their significant mating pair partner. There is no known cure for this malady.
Thanks, I did not know there was a name for it :)
 

Brooothru

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Getting another batch of pub ale ready for a brew this weekend. I ordered some of the proper grains for this recipe this time so should be darn close to the original. View attachment 760683
Coincidental post. I've got two 600ml repitches of Pub that I'm bringing back from deep slumber. They're just about done with the 1.020 starter and are about to get combined in a 5L Erlenmeyer along with 1L of 1.040 SG. They'll spin there for a few days on an identical Maelstrom stir plate. Whatcha' gonna brew with all that yeast?
 
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Miraculix

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Coincidental post. I've got two 600ml repitches of Pub that I'm bringing back from deep slumber. They're just about done with the 1.020 starter and are about to get combined in a 5L Erlenmeyer along with 1L of 1.040 SG. They'll spin there for a few days on an identical Maelstrom stir plate. Whatcha' gonna brew with all that yeast?
Very good beer of course!
 
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Miraculix

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Glad to know I'm not the only person to be afflicted with "hopsitosys": the compulsive need to obtain and store in mechanized refrigeration units copious amounts of the vegetal byproducts of humulus lupulus. Sufferers display a conscious awareness of the futility of the syndrome, and yet persist in behaviors which result in an excess inventory of frozen consumable samples, many of which will go unused past their expiration, in dark recesses of common freezers, much to the chagrin of their significant mating pair partner. There is no known cure for this malady.
I think I might got infected as well. At the moment, I got the desease under control, only have like five hops in my freezer. But I had a recent push and bought a pack of Rottenburger, which is an old school German variety that was supposed to be extinct but survived on one single farm in form of a 40 year old plant that was kept for decorative purposes and got discovered by accident.

...I am mentally strong. But I am not THAT strong to resist stuff like this :D
 
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