British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale

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Bilsch

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I vaguely remember a study that focused on the impact of ascorbic acid on the oxidation of the beer.

Your memory is correct. There is data that sugests that while ascorbic can function as an antioxidant early in the brewing process it can also then turn into a super oxidizer later thus accelerating staling.
 

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Ok, feeling bad for derailing this thread....

If one was going to try this recipe but couldn't get the imperial pub yeast and wanted a good dry yeast alternative, what would you suggest? It sounds like you want a little yeast character with this recipe so I'm thinking Windsor maybe, or London ESB?
 

bwible

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After seeing the post about a "Belgian" yeast I figure I should post about my golden syrup vs corn sugar experiment. My experiment was a bust as my English ale immigrated to Belgium sometime after packaging. First I thought it was only the corn sugar half then the golden syrup started showing a phenolic flavor and aroma. Although not the expected flavor profile it was still a nice beer and did not dump it.

I will rebrew this beer again but without experimenting and hopefully without getting it contaminated.

The pictures are from a couple PET bottles I used to test carbonation progression.
View attachment 745882
View attachment 745883
I had a couple beers I did recently where I thought this was the case. Tasted slightly phenolic on opening the first bottle. As it turns out, I was impatient and opened bottles and starting trying the beers after only a week in the bottle. These were 16 oz bottles, too, which I do not normally use except for these British ales. A month in now and I don’t taste that flavor anymore. Weird. And this was my first time using Verdant IPA dry yeast so I’m not sure if that has something to do with it. I normally am not a dry yeast guy.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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Your memory is correct. There is data that sugests that while ascorbic can function as an antioxidant early in the brewing process it can also then turn into a super oxidizer later thus accelerating staling.
I've heard that too and couldn't find valid resources online, so I discussed this topic with a professional food chemist and he couldn't remember anything within his career that would support this claim. In his own words, he's been using ascorbic acid in varying amounts since the seventies at his job and apart from one mysterious browning (which was not related to oxidation), he didn't witness anything that could implicate that this oxidising effect of vitamin C is actually a real thing.

Ok, feeling bad for derailing this thread....

If one was going to try this recipe but couldn't get the imperial pub yeast and wanted a good dry yeast alternative, what would you suggest? It sounds like you want a little yeast character with this recipe so I'm thinking Windsor maybe, or London ESB?
Verdant IPA would be best I think. Windsor should also work, but it is a poor flocculator, adding Nottingham on day three should help with this but also increase the attenuation, so you would want to mash higher.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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There's no such thing as a "good" dry yeast for British styles, Verdant seems to be a significant improvement on the previous options but I've not used it.
I agree. Verdant IPA is a completely different beast, compared to the rest of the English dry yeast world. But it is also kind of a unique yeast with its strooong fruitiness. I can fully understand if it's not everybody's cup of tea. I overused it a bit so I'll be skipping it for English styles for the next times I brew, but I might try it in an American style instead.
 

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It may be that Ascorbic runs a risk of becoming a SuperOxidizer when metals such as Copper or Iron are present at some level (such as might happen for tap water that sits in Copper or Iron pipes).
 
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Miraculix

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It may be that Ascorbic runs a risk of becoming a SuperOxidizer when metals such as Copper or Iron are present at some level (such as might happen for tap water that sits in Copper or Iron pipes.
How and why would be the questions I would ask and also the threshold that would be needed to be reached.
 

Silver_Is_Money

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Dehydroascorbic plus a water molecule perhaps? Just look up Ascorbic Acid oxidation products. No mention of Citric Acid, and myriads of mentions for Dehydroascorbic.
 

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for what it's worth, blind tastes tests at my LHBS had S-4 (recultured second gen) + WLP017 Whitbread was preferred over either separately, Pub or WLP085 for an English London porter tribute (tribute in that this is something akin but not trying to make a clone).
 

bwible

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for what it's worth, blind tastes tests at my LHBS had S-4 (recultured second gen) + WLP017 Whitbread was preferred over either separately, Pub or WLP085 for an English London porter tribute (tribute in that this is something akin but not trying to make a clone).
Liquid Whitbread would be Wyeast 1099. I do like that yeast. I have a pack of Pub, this will be my first experience with Imperial yeast. I just used Verdant, ? Not sure I’m a fan,
 

kmarkstevens

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Whitelabs also has their liquid Whitbread, which is WLP017. I haven't looked at Suregork' sequensing, but Wyeast and White Labs are probably equivalent. Although I seem to remember that Whibread was 3 different strains?

Methinks the Imperial Yeasts are all a cut above. Pub is certainly better that the Whitelab and Wyeast equivalents. That seems to hold up in my experience with other strains as well. Say it a different way, if Imperial has it, that will be the first yeast I try...
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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Whitelabs also has their liquid Whitbread, which is WLP017. I haven't looked at Suregork' sequensing, but Wyeast and White Labs are probably equivalent. Although I seem to remember that Whibread was 3 different strains?

Methinks the Imperial Yeasts are all a cut above. Pub is certainly better that the Whitelab and Wyeast equivalents. That seems to hold up in my experience with other strains as well. Say it a different way, if Imperial has it, that will be the first yeast I try...
I 2nd that. I have tried two of their yeasts, pub and harvest, and both have outcompeted all the rest in their respective area from my limited point of view.

Harvest for unhoppy lagers (at least no hop flavour) like helles and bock and pub for English ales. Harvest also works at room temperature btw.

I tried the whitelabs equivalent to pub and it was a dumper because of strrrrrong fusels which gave me the headache from hell after two beers only. Fermented too warm obviously, but pub can handle that so that's s difference between the two.

Steering a bit back, Imperial A09 Pub is the considered way to go, but I'm having trouble figuring the "ferment at room temp without temp control"


My OCD is having REAL issues with that.

The room temperature was just a matter of lack of possibilities when I first brewed it. Nowadays I would want it to be between 19 and 20c, ramping it up at the end.

But room temperature certainly works just fine.

Just make sure not to go too low, we want the yeast expression!

I just read that I pitched it at 25c, again, lack of proper cooling possibilities. Nowadays I would pitch at 20 to 22c.
 

bwible

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How about Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley, anybody like that one? I haven’t used it for awhile but I made all kinds of beers with it years ago. From mild, bitter, and pale ales all the way up to barleywine. It has a 10% tolerance. And I had good results, won a few ribbons. I just looked, it is still available. They haven’t made it a limited strain or anything.
 
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Miraculix

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How about Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley, anybody like that one? I haven’t used it for awhile but I made all kinds of beers with it years ago. From mild, bitter, and pale ales all the way up to barleywine. It has a 10% tolerance. And I had good results, won a few ribbons. I just looked, it is still available. They haven’t made it a limited strain or anything.

Never tried it myself. If it has a low to medium attenuation and a strong British character then it should work. Obviously something different than A09, but still could be good, just in another way.
 
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Shenanigans

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How about Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley, anybody like that one? I haven’t used it for awhile but I made all kinds of beers with it years ago. From mild, bitter, and pale ales all the way up to barleywine. It has a 10% tolerance. And I had good results, won a few ribbons. I just looked, it is still available. They haven’t made it a limited strain or anything.

I never used Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley but have used WLP023 Burton Ale which is supposed to be the White Labs equivalent.
I brewed an English IPA with it a few times with all EKG that turned out good.
The second time I upped the temperature a bit as it wasn't very expressive at 18oC in my basement.
At 21oC it gave off some nice Englishy esters.

Edit - I see from the manufacturing sites the recommended temp for WLP023 is 20° - 23° C
Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley is 17° - 22° C
 
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So I kegged my batch on Monday, I force carb my beers, I know, not proper for this style. Mine is more of a golden color then you original post due to my grain bill, I didn't get the crisp crystal cause my lhbs did not have so I subbed it out with something else I had on hand. It still needs time to clear and mature but first taste is excellent (and the wife is happy with it). This is about 10 minutes after the pour and a sip from my wife and I.
20220120_170602.jpg
 
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Miraculix

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So I kegged my batch on Monday, I force carb my beers, I know, not proper for this style. Mine is more of a golden color then you original post due to my grain bill, I didn't get the crisp crystal cause my lhbs did not have so I subbed it out with something else I had on hand. It still needs time to clear and mature but first taste is excellent (and the wife is happy with it). This is about 10 minutes after the pour and a sip from my wife and I.
View attachment 756380
Looks nice! I've also had versions that had a colour like yours, didn't impact the taste much. But be aware that this beer gets better with time. I just found a few hidden bottles from about three months ago and they are now really outstanding. Before it was already good, but now they are even better.

My latest one is in the fermenter right now, I used some dark wheat (midnight wheat) to adjust the colour, let's see if it's detectable in the taste!
 
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Good to hear, I've read in this thread that they get better with time. I always enjoy seeing how beer changes with time and throughout the process. I'm happy with the result already and excited to see how it is after some conditioning.
 

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With these ~1040 bitters, I've noted improvement up to about three months then a slow steady decline in hop character. Still good, but less balance. Minimal headspace and keeping them in the fridge increases stability greatly.
 
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With these ~1040 bitters, I've noted improvement up to about three months then a slow steady decline in hop character. Still good, but less balance. Minimal headspace and keeping them in the fridge increases stability greatly.
I agree. I also think that's roughly three months and then you probably have another month at it's best and then it goes slowly downhill. Based on my own experience, it also depends a bit on how much oxygen was involved on the hot side. Too much of it and it needs longer to mature (but not longer than 3 months).

One acception are heavily hopped bitter. I have an AK in the basement, that became really good after 4 or five months and is still improving after half a year. But that one had insane ibus for the given og, somehting above 50, if I remember corecctly.

Small headspace is a must!
 
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Looks nice! I've also had versions that had a colour like yours, didn't impact the taste much. But be aware that this beer gets better with time. I just found a few hidden bottles from about three months ago and they are now really outstanding. Before it was already good, but now they are even better.

My latest one is in the fermenter right now, I used some dark wheat (midnight wheat) to adjust the colour, let's see if it's detectable in the taste!
Speaking of color, what approximate SRM/EBC are you assigning to the Lyle's Golden Syrup. I've found a supplier and am anxious to give this recipe a 'go', but there's no data on color that I can find. I'm worried it could finish up too dark. BeerSmith shows an SRM of 5.6 when I plug in Invert Sugar (SRM 0.0) which is close to the upper limit for BJCP style. I had to sub Thomas Fawcett C-60 for the Crisp and added 0.25# acidulated, but otherwise the recipe is the same as your original, adjusted for my system and efficiencies.
 
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Speaking of color, what approximate SRM/EBC are you assigning to the Lyle's Golden Syrup. I've found a supplier and am anxious to give this recipe a 'go', but there's no data on color that I can find. I'm worried it could finish up too dark. BeerSmith shows an SRM of 5.6 when I plug in Invert Sugar (SRM 0.0) which is close to the upper limit for BJCP style. I had to sub Thomas Fawcett C-60 for the Crisp and added 0.25# acidulated, but otherwise the recipe is the same as your original, adjusted for my system and efficiencies.
You can ignore Lyle's, it has a very pale colour, basically golden, almost no impact on the colour of the beer. You can also ignore BJCP, they are not the Bitish beer authority so what they say and what is being brewed in Britain is not necessarily connected.
 

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Good, and agree on what seems like arbitrary pigeon-holing with style guidelines. Still, I DO enter some competitions and it helps to be somewhat close to what BJCP judges are looking for. I tossed in an arbitrary SRM number of 10.0*L for Lyles' and the beer color calculated at 6.1, with 6.0 being the guideline's maximum for British Golden Ale. I think you'd need a mass spectrometer to differentiate between 6.0 and 6.1 SRM, so in the larger scheme of things it's not a deal breaker.

I did find some Crisp Medium Crystal at Northern Brewer, but they listed the SRM at 77, which @ 10% of the grist bill increased my calculated color to 6.7 SRM over straight Thomas Fawcett 60L. Still not a deal breaker for me, though probably getting close to where a judge might comment on the color being a bit dark. On the same Northern Brewer website I found a Fawcett Medium English Crystal listed at 42*-48*L which would be closer to your 57*L Crisp. Would you say there's a discernible difference in taste between Crisp over Thomas Fawcett? Both seem to be traditional and reputable British maltsters.
 
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Good, and agree on what seems like arbitrary pigeon-holing with style guidelines. Still, I DO enter some competitions and it helps to be somewhat close to what BJCP judges are looking for. I tossed in an arbitrary SRM number of 10.0*L for Lyles' and the beer color calculated at 6.1, with 6.0 being the guideline's maximum for British Golden Ale. I think you'd need a mass spectrometer to differentiate between 6.0 and 6.1 SRM, so in the larger scheme of things it's not a deal breaker.

I did find some Crisp Medium Crystal at Northern Brewer, but they listed the SRM at 77, which @ 10% of the grist bill increased my calculated color to 6.7 SRM over straight Thomas Fawcett 60L. Still not a deal breaker for me, though probably getting close to where a judge might comment on the color being a bit dark. On the same Northern Brewer website I found a Fawcett Medium English Crystal listed at 42*-48*L which would be closer to your 57*L Crisp. Would you say there's a discernible difference in taste between Crisp over Thomas Fawcett? Both seem to be traditional and reputable British maltsters.
Every crystal tastes different. All the maltsters have their own way of creating the malt and that all changes the taste of it. Doesn't mean that it doesn't have to work either way, it's just different. I brewed this with a lot of different crystals and it tastes more or sometimes less different every time.

Also, just fyi, this beer was never supposed to be a golden ale, I just couldn't find a more fitting description in the drop down menu. :D It's basically a pretty light coloured bitter.
 

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Lyle's Golden Syrup 700g

As advised, Tate and Lyles Golden Syrup provides little extra color when added to even pale beers.

Another problem is there being no simple correlation between SRM and EBC. As Graham Wheeler has been mentioned more than once in this thread, I will post a piece he once wrote. It might not help and might not be of any value in this case, but it is a point I think is worth bearing in mind when thinking color or colour of beer.

The Series 52 glasses (that the Americans still use) are not good at dark beers or malts because of a deficiency of red in them, which is why we, in Britain, devised what are now known as the EBC colour glasses in 1950. Furthermore, prior to the EBC glasses, Whitbread, and other brewers, had the habit of adding a red glass to the S52 glasses to compensate for the lack of red. I have never been able to work out the relationship between the two glasses in the Whitbread analyses as published on Ron's blog. Another "furthermore" is that there is not the linear correlation between Lovibond (S52) and SRM that most people assume, bearing in mind that when Americans talk in Lovibond they are talking visual colour glasses (still used by most maltsters), and when they talk SRM they are talking photometric methods. Unfortunately, in Europe we make no such distinction.

Some time earlier he had written the following:-

The reason that the colour calculation in BeerEngine does not match other software is mainly because most software, particularly American software, is reliant upon a thing called the Morey equation, which is flawed. I have no knowledge of Brewmate, but I suspect that it also uses Morey, even though it is written by an Aussie. The Morey equation perpetuates a misconception that beer colour is not linear; that is, that it assumes that if you double the ingredients you do not get twice the colour. In fact, for all practical purposes, you do get twice the colour.

This misconception goes back to 1991/2 when the late Dr George Fix performed an "experiment" whereby he took a dark American beer and measured its absorbance (colour) as-is and at several dilutions. Fix ended up with a strange-shaped "curve" and from this he concluded that the Beer-Lambert Law, commonly known as Beer's Law, did not apply to beer and that beer colour was non-linear. Beer's Law is a law pertaining to spectrophotometric measurement and, confusingly, Beer is a person in this context. The idea behind George Fix's "experiment" was that home brewers could measure the approximate colour of their beer by diluting a dark commercial beer of known colour until it matched the home brewed beer, and then calculate its colour from the dilution required.

Other people tried to make colour prediction formulae using Fix's data, or at least incorporating Fix's non-linearity assumption, but these were somewhat unsatisfactory. They had obvious limitations and different formula covered different colour ranges. Then another worker, Dan Morey, came along and combined the various formulae into one universal formula. This became known as the Morey equation.

Unfortunately, George Fix did not know how to use a spectrophotometer properly; he was trying to use it outside of its reliable range. His laboratory technique was somewhat school-boyish and his interpretation was flawed. The flaws were noticed at the time and highlighted, but it became quite controversial because George Fix, and some of his followers, doggedly defended his results and methodology to the hilt; despite the fact that people far better qualified pointed out where he went wrong, and despite the fact that several people performed similar experiments using the same reference beer and found no deviation from Beer's Law.

So the Morey equation is wildly wrong because it is based on bad data that has had its errors compounded by other workers who tried to make the data fit the real world. It is unfortunate that these formulae still persist some twenty years later, but I think it persists because has been incorporated into so much software. If it was not for software perpetuating these ideas, they would have been dead, buried and forgotten years ago

For any who might have interest, Graham's Beer Engine can be downloaded from here.
 

cire

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Every crystal tastes different. All the maltsters have their own way of creating the malt and that all changes the taste of it. Doesn't mean that it doesn't have to work either way, it's just different. I brewed this with a lot of different crystals and it tastes more or sometimes less different every time.

Also, just fyi, this beer was never supposed to be a golden ale, I just couldn't find a more fitting description in the drop down menu. :D It's basically a pretty light coloured bitter.

From memory, which I must be honest and it isn't what it once was, Golden Ale as a style is probably a recent event, likely originating in America and quickly adopted in UK by breweries, for beers with individual merits, for marketing purposes, even when slight colour change was necessary.

My early memories of Golden Ale was of this.

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Golden colour it had, bottled in "nips", about a third of a pint, and strong, maybe 8%, it was generally bought to add to liven a draught pint when the beer was getting old and tired.
 

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Great information, guys. I'm gonna' go with the 77L Crisp Medium crystal and the Lyle's Golden syrup and not sweat the small stuff as you suggest. As long as I like it, to hell with what the judges say! I guess sometimes I just get a little anal about small details instead of focusing on the macro. In any event, it looks like a really nice recipe, and should make a really enjoyable British beer, whatever the sub-category. I miss going to London and having a pub crawl.
 
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Great information, guys. I'm gonna' go with the 77L Crisp Medium crystal and the Lyle's Golden syrup and not sweat the small stuff as you suggest. As long as I like it, to hell with what the judges say! I guess sometimes I just get a little anal about small details instead of focusing on the macro. In any event, it looks like a really nice recipe, and should make a really enjoyable British beer, whatever the sub-category. I miss going to London and having a pub crawl.

If you really want, you could add a dash of midnight wheat and enter it as a bitter. This is what I did with my current batch, which will be bottled tomorrow. I have not tried it yet, so I am not sure if there is some detectable impact on the taste through the little amount of dark malt.

Btw. I am having a Pilsner Urquell right now, I do not remember when I had one the alst time, must have been before my UK time, meaning at least 7 years ago. This beer is more bitter than I remember AND IT COMES IN GREEN BOTTLES!!!!! I think I detect skunkyness....... otherwise almost like an Augustiner Helles with more IBUs. There is this honey-ish malt thing going on. I like that.
 

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If you really want, you could add a dash of midnight wheat and enter it as a bitter. This is what I did with my current batch, which will be bottled tomorrow. I have not tried it yet, so I am not sure if there is some detectable impact on the taste through the little amount of dark malt.

Btw. I am having a Pilsner Urquell right now, I do not remember when I had one the alst time, must have been before my UK time, meaning at least 7 years ago. This beer is more bitter than I remember AND IT COMES IN GREEN BOTTLES!!!!! I think I detect skunkyness....... otherwise almost like an Augustiner Helles with more IBUs. There is this honey-ish malt thing going on. I like that.

As luck would have it, I was just playing around with your Easy AK Light Bitter recipe in BeerSmith and tried adding 2 oz of Blackprinze 500L to the grist. Two ounces was too much, but 1 oz. did the trick and added just enough 'dark' without making it a Dunkle, at least in the software. I really like using very small amounts of Blackprinze for color since it seems to add zero astringency or roasted notes.

Jennifer Talley writes about it in her book that I'm reading now, and squares perfectly with what my experience has been. Her method is to mash in the grains, minus the Blackprinze (or Chocolate, or any preferred dehusked roast malt) and then sprinkle the dark malt on top of the settled grain bed. Since my all-in-one system is a bottom up flow, I think I'd have to have mine at the bottom of the grain bed instead, though I have gotten good color extraction by crushing and mashing all the grains together.

Your mention of Augustiner Helles has me in withdrawal. I have two cans sitting in my beer fridge left over from the holidays, along with some Ayinger and Paulaner. This Dry January ("Dranuary" as my son calls it) is difficult enough as it is. And talking about green bottles and beer didn't help any! Last week we had an extended family gathering, and my son's father-in-law brought two Sixers of NA beer, a Heineken NA and a St. Pauli Girl NA. My taste buds will testify that, indeed, you can skunk NA beer if you put it in a green glass bottle!

Flying Dog Brewery came out with an NA beer called "Deep Fake IPA" that I picked up a six pack of but have yet to give it a try after last week's Heineken/St. Pauli debacle. I'm afraid if I go down to the beer fridge to retrieve one, that I might be tempted to grab one of the 15-pack of Founder's IPAs instead. Or even worse, be compelled to sample one of the German exports. Once the dam breaks, the flood will soon follow.
 
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As luck would have it, I was just playing around with your Easy AK Light Bitter recipe in BeerSmith and tried adding 2 oz of Blackprinze 500L to the grist. Two ounces was too much, but 1 oz. did the trick and added just enough 'dark' without making it a Dunkle, at least in the software. I really like using very small amounts of Blackprinze for color since it seems to add zero astringency or roasted notes.

Jennifer Talley writes about it in her book that I'm reading now, and squares perfectly with what my experience has been. Her method is to mash in the grains, minus the Blackprinze (or Chocolate, or any preferred dehusked roast malt) and then sprinkle the dark malt on top of the settled grain bed. Since my all-in-one system is a bottom up flow, I think I'd have to have mine at the bottom of the grain bed instead, though I have gotten good color extraction by crushing and mashing all the grains together.

Your mention of Augustiner Helles has me in withdrawal. I have two cans sitting in my beer fridge left over from the holidays, along with some Ayinger and Paulaner. This Dry January ("Dranuary" as my son calls it) is difficult enough as it is. And talking about green bottles and beer didn't help any! Last week we had an extended family gathering, and my son's father-in-law brought two Sixers of NA beer, a Heineken NA and a St. Pauli Girl NA. My taste buds will testify that, indeed, you can skunk NA beer if you put it in a green glass bottle!

Flying Dog Brewery came out with an NA beer called "Deep Fake IPA" that I picked up a six pack of but have yet to give it a try after last week's Heineken/St. Pauli debacle. I'm afraid if I go down to the beer fridge to retrieve one, that I might be tempted to grab one of the 15-pack of Founder's IPAs instead. Or even worse, be compelled to sample one of the German exports. Once the dam breaks, the flood will soon follow.
Tough live for you man!

Stay strong! Not even ten days left.
 

Northern_Brewer

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From memory, which I must be honest and it isn't what it once was, Golden Ale as a style is probably a recent event, likely originating in America and quickly adopted in UK by breweries, for beers with individual merits, for marketing purposes, even when slight colour change was necessary.

My early memories of Golden Ale was of this.

Golden colour it had, bottled in "nips", about a third of a pint, and strong, maybe 8%, it was generally bought to add to liven a draught pint when the beer was getting old and tired.

Well that's less a golden ale as currently conceived and more like one of the pale barleywines that were introduced to compete with Tennant's introduction of Gold Label in 1951. But given that making beer with pale malt will have happened earlier than complicating things with crystal (which only really came in 100 years ago, and only became common after WWII), "golden ale" is the default.

And marketing beers made with pale malt as "golden" dates back a long way, before there were trademarks as such. This article from Boak and Bailey notes a ‘Golden Sunlight Pale Ale’ being advertised in 1851, and the idea of golden ales certainly seems to have become popular by the time of Victoria's Golden Jubilee in 1887. Edd's old blog had a recipe for Bentley's Golden Bitter Ale from 1893, which with pale malt and a dash of sugar is very similar to the recipe for Boddies since at least the turn of the 20th century.

So far from being a recent event originating in the US, golden ales are an old thing that lingered along the M62-as-now-is whilst being supplanted in the south by newfangled bitters using crystal. Then the southerners rediscovered them, and since history is written by southerners, the history books decreed that golden ale was invented with Exmoor Gold and Summer Lightning.
 

cire

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So far from being a recent event originating in the US, golden ales are an old thing that lingered along the M62-as-now-is whilst being supplanted in the south by newfangled bitters using crystal. Then the southerners rediscovered them, and since history is written by southerners, the history books decreed that golden ale was invented with Exmoor Gold and Summer Lightning.

Ah well, my recollection is that of one who lived, and still lives, in the North East of England. Our beers were Ordinary, Scotch and Best, not Milds not Bitters. Colour was often an addition to enhance weaker beers with the Best beers being Pale.
 
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Miraculix

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Gentleman and very gentle women,

I was so sure that I had enough Pale ale or MO in my storage that I did not check up until... brewday. And of course, I had almost zero MO left. So here it is, the new Miraculix Best -Kitchen Sink Edition!

Pilsener with a dash of MO as the base, followed by Perle Hops and Hallertau Mittelfrüh. This is a true English/German friendship celebration :D

I added a bit of Dark wheat (to me it is similar to midnight wheat, quite neutral but dark), to lower the colour. I also simplified the mash schedule a bit, only three steps, first at 56C for proteins to be chopped into pieces (I always get chill haze these days, trying to get rid of it), 2nd at 65C for the sugars and 3rd at 77C for mashout and glyco-protein production (foam enhancing).

It is already happily bubbling in the kitchen. A09 is a quick starter, if it is reasonably fresh. The batch is about 20l big and had about 85% efficiency. BIAB ftw!

The invert No 2 is actually homemade invert, but There is no way of hacking that into brewers friend. Also, the Gladfield flaked spelt is actually just plain wholegrain Spelt flour.

As you can see there are 2 Crystal malts involved, this is becasue I wanted to clear my storage a bit, did not have enough of the Premium English, so I added some of the Heritage Crystal. They are actually quite different so I think this makes even sense flavour-wise, they should complement each other quite well. Premium is more of a traditional criystal mal, with sweetness and caramel and heritage is a bit astringent if overused, darker, more intense and almost zero sweetness.

I was also quite brave and got into English water territory with this regarding water chemistry. 7g gypsum and 6g Calciumchloride. Plus Vitamin C, but I will make a whole thread for this one, once I finished this batch. Looks like a total game changer to me, but I have to at least verify with this second batch using it.

Original Gravity: 1.047

Final Gravity: 1.014

ABV (standard): 4.4%

IBU (tinseth): 28.8

SRM (morey): 12.6

Yeast: Imperial Yeast - A09 Pub

3,835 g
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
2,500 g Bestmalz - BEST Organic Pilsen Malt37265.2%
325 g United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale383.758.5%
300 g Gladfield - Flaked Spelt32.21.77.8%
230 g Simpsons - Premium English Caramalt32.623.046%
250 g GB - Invert Sugar #236256.5%
60 g The Swaen - Blackswaen Black Wheat364001.6%
170 g Simpsons - Heritage Crystal32664.4%

Hops:

Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU Bill %
25 g Perle Pellet 8.9 Boil 45 min 23.0138.5%
40 g Hallertau Mittelfrüh Leaf/Whole 3.9 Boil 10 min 5.7961.5%

Mash Guidelines:

Temp Time
56 °C 15 min
65 °C 45 min
77 °C 15 min
Some updates on this one. I bottled it and what I got there tastes like a Fuller's London Pride clone. The bottled version unfortunately :D

I upped the OG and I upped the crystal amount to 10%, compared to the original MB version. Well, that got me into Fuller's territory. A bit too sweet for my liking, not quite there with the hops, a bit more would have been good. Now I remember why my initial version had less crystal and a lower OG on purpose.

Ok, lesson learned. It is probably not a bad beer what I bottled there, let's give it some time to shine.

BUT on another note, ZERO signs of hot side oxidation whatsoever, ZERO almond flavour. So the vitamin c thing really seems to work as antissipated. I added a little bit more this time, just to see what happens, but I would not increase the dosage further. I now have 3.5g of ascorbic acid (vitamin c) on 20 litres in the fermenter. I added it together with the water salts before doughing in.
 
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Miraculix

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Just to let you guys know, here is the vitamin c thread:

 

Brooothru

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Some updates on this one. I bottled it and what I got there tastes like a Fuller's London Pride clone. The bottled version unfortunately :D

I upped the OG and I upped the crystal amount to 10%, compared to the original MB version. Well, that got me into Fuller's territory. A bit too sweet for my liking, not quite there with the hops, a bit more would have been good. Now I remember why my initial version had less crystal and a lower OG on purpose.

Ok, lesson learned. It is probably not a bad beer what I bottled there, let's give it some time to shine.

BUT on another note, ZERO signs of hot side oxidation whatsoever, ZERO almond flavour. So the vitamin c thing really seems to work as antissipated. I added a little bit more this time, just to see what happens, but I would not increase the dosage further. I now have 3.5g of ascorbic acid (vitamin c) on 20 litres in the fermenter. I added it together with the water salts before doughing in.
Interesting read re: vitamin C/ascorbic. Are you using it in conjunction with any sulphites or gallotannins? I've been working with 'Trifecta' in both the mash and late boil, trying to get the amounts dialed in to increasingly smaller additions. It has been very effective at keeping oxidation in check but it may be affecting flavor as a result.

Speaking of flavor, your comment about the latest iteration of your bitters tasting like London Pride draught made me want to travel back to London to lift a pint or two. Fuller's was one of my "go to" favorites. I also enjoyed the brewery tour (off the A4 on the way to downtown from Heathrow). Good times, for sure.
 
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Miraculix

Miraculix

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Interesting read re: vitamin C/ascorbic. Are you using it in conjunction with any sulphites or gallotannins? I've been working with 'Trifecta' in both the mash and late boil, trying to get the amounts dialed in to increasingly smaller additions. It has been very effective at keeping oxidation in check but it may be affecting flavor as a result.

Speaking of flavor, your comment about the latest iteration of your bitters tasting like London Pride draught made me want to travel back to London to lift a pint or two. Fuller's was one of my "go to" favorites. I also enjoyed the brewery tour (off the A4 on the way to downtown from Heathrow). Good times, for sure.
I'm afraid that I didn't go to any brewery although I lived close to London for almost five years!

No I don't use any other agents, no SMB, no brewtan. I think that they are not necessary and may have detrimental impacts that we cannot really foresee. I like to keep things as simple as possible and I don't see any reason to add other substances if one already seems to do the job.
 
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