Milk Crates - ethics?

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Kulprit

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Ok so I seem to have gotten killed when I got a keg without realizing the ethical situation and how we as brewers should look at it. Education received.

So now that I am "making bottles," me and the guys have amassed quite a few Sam Adams bottles (7 cases in 2 weeks aint bad). Problem is it's real hard to get a full case of Sam around here and they are all sold in 12packs. A few have already broken down and wont work. So we were looking for stuff to help us store empty bottles as we continue to amass them. This will also help me keep SWMBO off my back as I keep it as neat a pile as possible.

It occurred to me that I run into much the same problem when trying to collect those plastic milk crates so I was wondering what the community view point is in this area?

thanks.
 

Tenchiro

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Target and stores like it will sell the plastic milk crate style totes for very little.
 

Brakeman_Brewing

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its probably going to run into the same never ending ethics debate the kegs do.

bottom line if it says "property of such and such" no matter what it is, i think the same exact ethics debate is going to pop up.

+1 on what Tenchiro said, a few of my local grocery stores have generic plastic milk crates/pallates that they will sell fairly cheap or give away
 

El_Borracho

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Just go to the back of the grocery store and grab a few crates. Don't be an ass about it and take a palate worth of milk crates tonight....spread it out over the next few weeks.. :D The cost is much different in regards to a keg compared to a milk crate. If they cared more about their well-being they would have found a secure place to store them.
 

Brewing Clamper

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El_Borracho said:
Just go to the back of the grocery store and grab a few crates. Don't be an ass about it and take a palate worth of milk crates tonight....spread it out over the next few weeks.. :D The cost is much different in regards to a keg compared to a milk crate. If they cared more about their well-being they would have found a secure place to store them.
Oh snap! Duck!
 

Blender

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I just hit liquor stores or Quick shops for the old cardboard cases. Here they pile them up in the carboard recycle bins.
 

Yooper

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El_Borracho said:
Just go to the back of the grocery store and grab a few crates. Don't be an ass about it and take a palate worth of milk crates tonight....spread it out over the next few weeks.. :D The cost is much different in regards to a keg compared to a milk crate. If they cared more about their well-being they would have found a secure place to store them.

Ooh, boy, I just can't let that one go.

I don't have my car in the garage- it's just sitting outside in the driveway. It belongs to me, it has my name on the title, but if I cared about it, I guess I would find a more secure place to store it. I guess, then, according to this logic, that you should just steal it since I have insurance.

Whatever the value of an item is, stealing is stealing. No ifs ands or buts. If something does not belong to you, and you take it, it is stealing. If someone else steals it and gives it to you, it is stealing.

Go buy a tote, or ask a milk company to buy their crates. But don't steal them. And if you do, don't post about it. That makes me sick.
 

ColoradoXJ13

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What about corny kegs? All the ones I have say "property of such and such" and "receiving this container without permission...blah blah blah..."

sorry, stoking the flames...
 
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El_Borracho said:
Just go to the back of the grocery store and grab a few crates. Don't be an ass about it and take a palate worth of milk crates tonight....spread it out over the next few weeks.. :D The cost is much different in regards to a keg compared to a milk crate. If they cared more about their well-being they would have found a secure place to store them.
Great thinking dude...So when your dairy items go up in price you'll know why. Because not only are the stores charged for the non-return deposit (an actual line item on the invoice) the dairy company has to replace them, and do you think the dairy companies are just going to eat into their profits? Or the stores for that matter.
 

Alamo_Beer

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I work at a storage facility and almost all of the units we have to auction has a few...why I don't know but i've collected 6 or so.

Maybe check out the paper for storage auctions (we legally have to list them). Plus there is always pretty cool stuff you can get for cheap
 

abracadabra

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Alamo_Beer said:
I work at a storage facility and almost all of the units we have to auction has a few...why I don't know but i've collected 6 or so.

Maybe check out the paper for storage auctions (we legally have to list them). Plus there is always pretty cool stuff you can get for cheap
Don't know about TX but here is Ga. Both selling stolen property and buying stolen property is illegal. Even if you are not the one who orginally stole it. It's still not your's to sell. And it's still not your's if you buy it.
 

2nd Street Brewery

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I probably have 20 at home, but then, my wife used to work for the dairy and the owner gave them to me so I'm good and all:D
 

Orfy

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Why do people come on here asking us to make ethical judgments for them.
If you want to steal something go steal it but PLEASE stop asking us if it is right.
I for one do not care and do not want to hear about it.
IT IS STEALING.

Is there any point to these threads?
 

TWilson

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abracadabra said:
Don't know about TX but here is Ga. Both selling stolen property and buying stolen property is illegal. Even if you are not the one who orginally stole it. It's still not your's to sell. And it's still not your's if you buy it.
Just for informational purposes. If this is contracted rental storage units, then the storage facility owner is probably not guilty of theft. Almost all storage unit contracts allow the facility owner to seize items in the storage unit if the renter is x-days past due on the rent. The clause generally stipulates that the seized items will be sold at auction to recover lost rent. A friend of mine used to own several storage units and had to have sales all the time. He got out of the business due to the hassle. He also didn't like having to pay a lawyer for all the legal notices for the sales.


Back on topic, Wal-mart, Target, and other big box stores sell the crates super cheap. Just go buy some. Or better yet, design and build your own wooden cases. They will look a lot better.
 
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Kulprit

Kulprit

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orfy said:
Why do people come on here asking us to make ethical judgments for them.
If you want to steal something go steal it but PLEASE stop asking us if it is right.
I for one do not care and do not want to hear about it.
IT IS STEALING.

Is there any point to these threads?
I asked because new to the board I didn't know what the consensus was.

I was slammed for "buying" a keg from a beverage store. Me personally? I haven't lost any sleep over it - but I was interested when I read all your viewpoints about looking at it from a brewers perspective and have since made contact with my local micro-brewery about buying 2 kegs from them (ie. ethically)

Basically I didn't want to post some picture of my setup down the line and get torn up over having a bunch of these milk crates. Honestly I don't really know where they came from - they just sort of showed up during my multiple moves over the last 10 years.
 

Brewpastor

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Ethics should be cut and dry. If it belongs to somebody else then it is not ethical to take it. If you want to go ahead and take them it is your deal. But I don't believe anyone can argue that taking them is ethical in the purest sense. No permission being granted today. Now forgivenes....
 

homebrewer_99

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Brewpastor said:
Ethics should be cut and dry. If it belongs to somebody else then it is not ethical to take it. If you want to go ahead and take them it is your deal. But I don't believe anyone can argue that taking them is ethical in the purest sense. No permission being granted today. Now forgivenes....
If you have to ask....;)
 

Docapi

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TWilson said:
Just for informational purposes. If this is contracted rental storage units, then the storage facility owner is probably not guilty of theft. Almost all storage unit contracts allow the facility owner to seize items in the storage unit if the renter is x-days past due on the rent. The clause generally stipulates that the seized items will be sold at auction to recover lost rent. A friend of mine used to own several storage units and had to have sales all the time. He got out of the business due to the hassle. He also didn't like having to pay a lawyer for all the legal notices for the sales.

.
If the property in the storage units was stolen, then no rental agreement in the world will make it "un" stolen. The rental agreement allows for the tenant's property to be siezed by the landlord, not somebody else's property.

The Landlord would not be guilty of theft, but he would be guilty of receiving and selling stolen property.
 

Orfy

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I asked because new to the board I didn't know what the consensus was.

I was slammed for "buying" a keg from a beverage store. Me personally? I haven't lost any sleep over it - but I was interested when I read all your viewpoints about looking at it from a brewers perspective and have since made contact with my local micro-brewery about buying 2 kegs from them (ie. ethically)

Basically I didn't want to post some picture of my setup down the line and get torn up over having a bunch of these milk crates. Honestly I don't really know where they came from - they just sort of showed up during my multiple moves over the last 10 years.
Nobody is going to have a go at you for owning a stolen milk crate or keg or car.

IF you don't go round telling people about it,

You will not change peoples minds on this.
 

El_Borracho

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orfy said:
Why do people come on here asking us to make ethical judgments for them.
If you want to steal something go steal it but PLEASE stop asking us if it is right.
I for one do not care and do not want to hear about it.
IT IS STEALING.

Is there any point to these threads?
Exactly.

For what it's worth I'm a very sarcastic person. I've also noticed the stir-up that happens when someone suggest taking that which does not really belong to them.

To the comment on dairy prices. I myself drink half a gallon of milk a day, it's part of my diet. My daughters kill a gallon between the both of them. I buy "a crate" (4 gallons) weekly. My mother also runs a daycare and she gets 20 gallons of milk delivered daily, in crates.

But who am I to tell you what you should and shouldn't do? I feel fine with my decisions on morality.

Usually when I find a thread I don't like, I just don't participate..this way it doesn't pop up as a subscribed thread and I don't get my panties in a bunch every time someones drops their brick in it..
 

Fingers

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homebrewer_99 said:
Milk is naturally designed for babies
Well, the milk we typically drink has been specially formulated to grow healthy baby calves not humans. If you're talking about human breast milk I'd have to agree. In either case, it's not for adults.

As far as the theft thing goes, I think Orfy said it best. If you're a thief, well, be a thief but don't expect justification from anyone who isn't. As a young man I used to buy the occassional 'hot' item and think I was really scoring. Now that I'm older and wiser I know that being party to theft isn't any better than being a thief. I'm above lying and stealing so I don't do it. Find another way.
 

spazus_maximus

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If you need & cant afford..by all means take...If you can afford... you should pay.

I will say if i or my kids are hungry....I will steal so we can eat....If i Have money i will pay.....Ya just never know unless you have been there.....peace
 

SuperiorBrew

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El_Borracho said:
Just go to the back of the grocery store and grab a few crates. Don't be an ass about it and take a palate worth of milk crates tonight....spread it out over the next few weeks.. :D The cost is much different in regards to a keg compared to a milk crate. If they cared more about their well-being they would have found a secure place to store them.
Yea just steal a few at a time themn it isnt stealing :confused:
 

Fingers

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spazus_maximus said:
If you need & cant afford..by all means take...If you can afford... you should pay.

I will say if i or my kids are hungry....I will steal so we can eat....If i Have money i will pay.....Ya just never know unless you have been there.....peace
I understand what you're saying, spaz, and for the most part I think people would forgive extreme behaviour in name of survival but I question whether that is ever necessary. I had a neighbour who had the attitude that everyone should give him things because he was poor. He was poor because he was a lazy idiot. Granted he collected welfare instead of stealing for a living, but saying you should take what you need because you have no money is a false dichotomy.

There are churches, soup kitchens, day work, begging, etc. All are a better options than stealing. I too found myself destitute for a short period of time. I wasn't homeless, but I had no money for food. What I found was a centre where you show up at 6:00 AM and wait for day labour. It was crappy work but they paid you half your day's wage (minimum wage of course) at the end of each day and saved the rest for a paycheque at the end of two weeks. I held my dignity and worked for my food. The crisis passed and I got back on my feet without selling my soul.

Stealing is almost always a choice where other options are either rejected or not explored. In fact, I would guess that most stealing isn't subsistance theft anyway. I believe drug dependancy drives most of it. It would be cheaper for us to just supply pharmaceutical drugs to the addicts until they're ready to get off them. But that's another subject.
 

spazus_maximus

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Fingers said:
I understand what you're saying, spaz, and for the most part I think people would forgive extreme behaviour in name of survival but I question whether that is ever necessary. I had a neighbour who had the attitude that everyone should give him things because he was poor. He was poor because he was a lazy idiot. Granted he collected welfare instead of stealing for a living, but saying you should take what you need because you have no money is a false dichotomy.

There are churches, soup kitchens, day work, begging, etc. All are a better options than stealing. I too found myself destitute for a short period of time. I wasn't homeless, but I had no money for food. What I found was a centre where you show up at 6:00 AM and wait for day labour. It was crappy work but they paid you half your day's wage (minimum wage of course) at the end of each day and saved the rest for a paycheque at the end of two weeks. I held my dignity and worked for my food. The crisis passed and I got back on my feet without selling my soul.

Stealing is almost always a choice where other options are either rejected or not explored. In fact, I would guess that most stealing isn't subsistance theft anyway. I believe drug dependancy drives most of it. It would be cheaper for us to just supply pharmaceutical drugs to the addicts until they're ready to get off them. But that's another subject.
I would have to agree with you....unfortunately I have been reading too much classic russian literature which has left me somewhat detached from todays society...Your correct America is way too wealthy for anyone to steal. This is kind of interesting as my truck was broken into today....they/he/she stole a laptop,cd's & my smokes!..Now if they were hungry & didnt know what else to do...I forgive them wholeheartedly....On the otherhand if they were fienden for their dope & knew it was wrong... its a whole different story.....
 
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spazus_maximus said:
I would have to agree with you....unfortunately I have been reading too much classic russian literature which has left me somewhat detached from todays society...Your correct America is way too wealthy for anyone to steal. This is kind of interesting as my truck was broken into today....they/he/she stole a laptop,cd's & my smokes!..Now if they were hungry & didnt know what else to do...I forgive them wholeheartedly....On the otherhand if they were fienden for their dope & knew it was wrong... its a whole different story.....
They didn't get any milk crates? Sorry...Just had to....I'm sorry for your loss.
 

El_Borracho

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Fingers said:
Well, the milk we typically drink has been specially formulated to grow healthy baby calves not humans. If you're talking about human breast milk I'd have to agree. In either case, it's not for adults.
I love me some breast milk! But you're right a baby calf goes from 40lbs at birth to 400lbs in a year or two off of just milk. I use it for cheap calories and steady protein. I would as far as to say Cow's milk is not for Humans. We're the only species on earth who lives off of another species milk. We inject hormones into the cows so their bodies think they need to lactate for their offspring, we stick em on to a pump and collect the sweet supple goodness. Kind of gross, and I used to be a vegetarian.

spazus_maximus said:
If you need & cant afford..by all means take...If you can afford... you should pay.
I'll agree to that. But I also very much agree with Fingerz, everyone has options.


I noticed someone posted about Pepsi and Cookies, I actually like my Oreos with Pepsi. Gives me the ****tles though.

/would rather not stir the **** anymore
 
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