Mexican Vienna Lager critique

[mrdauber64]

Hi,

I plan to brew a Mexican Vienna lager tomorrow. Here is my plan:

OG: 1.053
SRM 15.5 ish
Yeast: W-34/70
IBU: 22

Grainbill:
8 lbs. Vienna Malt
1.5 lb instant grits
6 oz. C-120
4 oz. Chocolate malt

Hops:
2 ML hopshot - 60 min - 18.77 IBU
1 oz Tetnang - 5 min - 3.06 IBU

Thoughts? Does the C-120 and chocolate add too much roast/dark malt characteristic for the style? I also have C-10, C40, Honey Malt and CaraMunich that I have in stock. Would one of those work better? I can't find a lot on this style but I figured this would a good fall addition to my kegerator to replace my easy drinking cream ale.

 

[dmtaylor]

I think that's a very good base recipe. However maybe just a touch too dark. Maybe bring down the C120 or chocolate malt or both by 1 oz. Also personally I would favor CaraMunich instead of the C120. The CaraMunich is not as dark so then you can go ahead and use 6 oz of it. You won't be able to taste 3-4 oz chocolate malt in the final beer so that should be fine just to get the color where you want it. I would not use the other malts although you could if you wanted. The base recipe is still very good with almost 80% Vienna malt -- that is really the key to success with this style.

One other thing is some concern over the HopShot. I've used it before and it's great in American styles, but might give just a touch of citrus flavor that could become noticeable in the Vienna style which is otherwise such a clean lager beer. You can use it, but if you have noble hops available, I would recommend more Tettnang or Hallertau as the boil hops, for the same IBU contribution (about 18-19 or whatever).

Enjoy!!

 

[Morrey]

With 10 combined oz of C120 and the Chocolate (350L???) you're going to be darker than you project.

 

[meatcleaver]

I think this technically falls under category 2b international amber lager but here's some reading & a recipe
http://www.fermentarium.com/homebrewing/brewing-beer/how-to-make-mexican-lagers/
I just made an Amber lager myself (still in primary). it was a partial mash...
1 lb Vienna
.5 lb 2-row
1 lb c-60
.5 lb flaked wheat
6 lbs gold LME @ flameout
1 oz spalt FWH
1 oz spalt @ 10
1 oz spalt @ 5
fermented with 34-70 @ 68°f
looking good so far...

 

[mrdauber64]

With 10 combined oz of C120 and the Chocolate (350L???) you're going to be darker than you project.

I thought so too, but that is what ibrewmaster sets the color too, and from past experience, ibrewmaster is pretty close on the color. I think I'll back the chocolate down to 3 oz. just for the color. Thanks!

 

[mrdauber64]

I think that's a very good base recipe. However maybe just a touch too dark. Maybe bring down the C120 or chocolate malt or both by 1 oz. Also personally I would favor CaraMunich instead of the C120. The CaraMunich is not as dark so then you can go ahead and use 6 oz of it. You won't be able to taste 3-4 oz chocolate malt in the final beer so that should be fine just to get the color where you want it. I would not use the other malts although you could if you wanted. The base recipe is still very good with almost 80% Vienna malt -- that is really the key to success with this style.

One other thing is some concern over the HopShot. I've used it before and it's great in American styles, but might give just a touch of citrus flavor that could become noticeable in the Vienna style which is otherwise such a clean lager beer. You can use it, but if you have noble hops available, I would recommend more Tettnang or Hallertau as the boil hops, for the same IBU contribution (about 18-19 or whatever).

Enjoy!!

Thanks for the response! I was going to use CaraMunich but my fear was that I would start getting too close to an Oktoberfest. My plan is to brew one of those after this batch. I'll back both the C-120 down by an oz so to reduce the color and impact of both. Thanks for the suggestion.

I've been using the Hop Extract to bitter my last 10 batches or so. I have been really impressed with how clean the bittering has been when used at 60 minutes. Boiling for 60 minutes removes all of the citrus aroma and flavor. All you are left with is a nice clean bittering additon without the vegital matter and flavor. I threw the Tettnang in towards the end for that noble aroma.

Thanks again!

 

[hamiltont]

Here's my grain bill for 10 gallons of Vienna Lager. If I make it dark like a Negra Modelo then I add 3-4 oz. of Midnight Wheat. (Love that stuff!!)

13 lb. Vienna
5 lb. Munich
3 lb. Pilsner
1 lb. Crystal 60L
Mash @ ~155F

Hops:
.75 oz. Millenium (11.8% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Vanguard (5.2% AA, 15 min.)

90 minute boil..

Cheers!!!

 

[brewbama]

Here's my grain bill for 10 gallons of Vienna Lager. If I make it dark like a Negra Modelo then I add 3-4 oz. of Midnight Wheat. (Love that stuff!!)

13 lb. Vienna
5 lb. Munich
3 lb. Pilsner
1 lb. Crystal 60L
Mash @ ~155F

Hops:
.75 oz. Millenium (11.8% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Vanguard (5.2% AA, 15 min.)

90 minute boil..

Cheers!!!

That's very similar to a 5 gal recipe I have but have not brewed (yet):

5 lb Vienna
2 lb Munich
1 lb Pilsner
1 lb Crystal 60

Mash 60 min @ 154*F

But we stray with the hops. I have boil 60 min and add:

1 oz Hallertauer 60 min
1 oz Hallertauer 10 min

 

[hamiltont]

That's very similar to a 5 gal recipe I have but have not brewed (yet):

5 lb Vienna
2 lb Munich
1 lb Pilsner
1 lb Crystal 60

Mash 60 min @ 154*F

But we stray with the hops. I have boil 60 min and add:

1 oz Hallertauer 60 min
1 oz Hallertauer 10 min

Hallertauer & Vanguard are sorta similar. I just had some Vanguard on hand. The 60 minute hops really won't matter much other than for the total IBU's. 1 lb. of C60 in 5 gallons would be too sweet for my tastes though. Cheers!!!

 

[JimRausch]

mrdauber- notice no corn in all the other recipes posted. I think I know why you've added it (ie. Mexican Vienna) but I really think it's not-to-style. And I second using Caramunich 2 or 3 (or both) and adjusting color with the chocolate malt. A touch (3-4 oz) of the honey malt wouldn't be bad either.

 

[mrdauber64]

mrdauber- notice no corn in all the other recipes posted. I think I know why you've added it (ie. Mexican Vienna) but I really think it's not-to-style. And I second using Caramunich 2 or 3 (or both) and adjusting color with the chocolate malt. A touch (3-4 oz) of the honey malt wouldn't be bad either.

Hi Jim, thanks for the reply. I actually brewed this today, but had some issue(immersion chiller hose came off and dumped about a gallon of water in the brew lot while chilling before I noticed) dang it! Gravity came in at 1.043. So pretty low. I may end up either dumping it because of the hose water or keeping it as a session beer at around 4%. Either way I will probably redrew it.

I reduced the chocolate malt to 4 and put the c120 at 5 oz. the color was right about where I wanted it, close to Negra Modelo.

I thought about the honey malt, but in the end the dark fruit flavor of c120 sounded good when mixed with Vienna.

The recipes listed above are more German Vienna lagers. Mexican Vienna lagers do contain corn to dry them out. Quote from BYO:
"Most Mexican Vienna lagers contain some corn in their formulation. As a homebrewer, you could add up to 20% corn — in the form of grits, flaked maize or brewers corn syrup — to your Vienna lager. You’ll need to perform a cereal mash if you use grits, but flaked maize can be stirred right into the mash and brewers syrup can be added in the boil. Adding this adjunct will lighten the color and body of the beer compared to an all-malt beer. "

I'll post the results after fermentation, but like I said. I do t have high hopes for this one. So if it sucks I'll post results after a rebrew.

Nick

 

[JimRausch]

Sorry to hear about the malfunction. That IM hose connection seems to be a fairly common weak spot. I suppose you could add some DME at this point to kick up the OG a bit, although 1.043 isn't too bad for a Vienna. If it's a 5G batch, then 1 lb. of DME would kick it up to 1.051. I'd dissolve it in a little boiled water and dump her in.

 

[mrdauber64]

Well this is kegged and ready to drink. Since I messed up with the chiller water going into the wort I didn't want to waste my time or my lager yeast so I just pitched a packet of Nottingham and fermented it cold. The result is a darker lager, I would say a dark red/copper color about the same as Negra Modelo. Aroma is very Vienna, with a hint of roast. Very inviting! Flavor is very nice but does have a bit too much roast. Nottingham fermented cold gives a very suedo-lager like quality. Very easy drinking. It finished at 1.010 so it came in a touch of 4% but taste dry.

Overall I would say this is a good beer with no off flavors that I can find. I may enter this in a local competition this weekend under the Dark International Lager category. Next time I would probably switch the c-120 to Honey Malt for a little more sweetness and less roast and of course not let my chiller leak in wort during cooling because it is a bit thin(but that could be from the grits too).