Methods for Adding Honey to Secondary

[JoppaFarms]

I am brewing a Cream Ale and I want to split it after primary fermentation and do a couple of different things. I want to add honey to get the honey sweetness and flavor (if possible).

What are some proven methods for adding honey in secondary to get flavor? Just boil water and cool, mix honey and then add honey-mixture to secondary and rack on top? What point should I transfer to secondary? Before or after I hit FG?

 

[bobbrews]

I don't think there would be any sanitation issues with adding honey directly to the beer. Honey is quite the sanitary product. Plus, you already have alcohol at this point, which is not a suitable environment for bacterial growth like wort can be. As long as you are not using very raw honey with dead bee matter and chunks of honeycomb floating in it, I would say you're good to go.

I recommend stirring the honey with a 1/2 cup of 100 F or colder pre-boiled water to get it viscous enough to fully pitch into your empty secondary. Rack the beer on top. Since you're racking to secondary after fermentation, you should have already hit your FG. But the addition of new sugar will kick start some residual yeast, which may lower the FG a few points more, i.e. secondary fermentation.

Another method is to add a pre-determined amount of honey directly to each bottle. In addition to carbing, it will also lend some flavor. For the best flavor, perhaps you should try both techniques (adding honey to the secondary & the bottles). The secondary will be able to hold more honey than the bottles obviously, which is why I'm recommending that you do both. I gather you would need at least 12-15% honey by total fermentable weight for it to make an impact flavorwise.

 

[JoppaFarms]

Thanks for the suggestions. The batch that I am doing the honey secondary in will only be 1 gallon and I will be secondary fermenting in a 1 gallon glass jug so I'm tight on space. I don't want to dilute the honey too much if I don't have to because that doesn't leave much space for the beer. I have seen recipes calling for 1 pound of Honey per 5 gallon batch, so I figure I'd go roughly 1/5 pound in about a cup of boiled and cooled water and see where that got me. The beer was 1.045 OG, so I'm not sure how to calculate the 12-15% fermentables you quoted in your post. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[bobbrews]

You can use a program like Beer Calculus at http://hopville.com/ to gauge % of fermentables. You would not be "diluting" the honey with water... you would merely be thinning it out a tiny bit so it's easier to pour.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Honey often contains large populations of wild yeast and/or bacteria which have been rendered inactive by osmosis due to the honey's high sugar concentration. Once diluted (i.e., in wort) these microorganisms will become very active once again. There are proven ways to handle honey in homebrewing. One of the better sources of information is the National Honey Board. Try looking at this: http://www.honey.com/tools-tips-and-resources/honey-in-beer

 

[bobbrews]

Honey often contains large populations of wild yeast and/or bacteria which have been rendered inactive by osmosis due to the honey's high sugar concentration. Once diluted (i.e., in wort) these microorganisms will become very active once again.

I doubt the full accuracy of this statement.

I have personally brewed honey before using the above methods and had no signs of infection.

Sugar, salt, and acid are all natural preservatives. For centuries, people have been smothering meats with cures and dryrubs to prevent bacterial spoilage with no additional refrigeration... And it works.

I have no doubt that if you leave honey out at room temperature, in an open container, that bacteria will win over in the end and eventually spoil the product... but this will take awhile. It is a completely different scenerio when you are adding honey to sanitized and covered wort or beer.

 

[Pratzie]

Everyone seems to be of the same agreement that it won't go bad per se, thats its one of the few things in nature that won't. Not saying im ready to down a 50 yo teaspoon of honey but that appears to be the logic.

As far as using it in brewing, ive added it at the end of the boil for a Kolsch and it feremented completely. I'd be inclined to think that if u added it in the secondary, the yeasties left there would start back up eating the honey and lowing the SG more. That being said I think u'd be better off adding it at the bottling phase if ur really looking for the flavor itself.

 

[Pilgarlic]

I doubt the full accuracy of this statement.

I have personally brewed honey before using the above methods and had no signs of infection.

Sugar, salt, and acid are all natural preservatives. For centuries, people have been smothering meats with cures and dryrubs to prevent bacterial spoilage with no additional refrigeration... And it works.

I have no doubt that if you leave honey out at room temperature, in an open container, that bacteria will win over in the end and eventually spoil the product... but this will take awhile. It is a completely different scenerio when you are adding honey to sanitized and covered wort or beer.

You simply misunderstand what it is about honey that retards the growth of microorganisms. Undiluted, honey WILL remain preserved almost indefinitely. Dilute it and the organisms take off.

The TWO major characteristics of honey that cause it to resist contamination are 1) it's gravity and 2) a VERY small amount of hydrogen peroxide. Lower the honey's gravity (dilute it) and it loses its antimicrobial characteristics. Doubt this, sure, but do a quick google for the facts before you go out on that uninformed limb.

Now, if the honey you're using has been pasteurized, it's not going to have microbes to grow when diluted. As a beekeeper and a brewer, I'd never use a pasteurized honey in a brew.

 

[bobbrews]

It is completely preposterous to claim that honey is sterile with effective preservative properties only when it is undiluted. It's gravity has nothing to do with it. A liquid sugar water solution (depending on the concentration of sugar to water) is relatively viscous and just as effective of a preservative if the water used to dilute it is also sterile.

When used for curing, much of the preservative power of sugar and salt comes from driving off the water... the main ingredient that supports life and in this case bacterial growth. IF there was any chance of bacteria taking off in diluted honey, the cause would be from the tainted water that you used to dilute it with, and also in this case, possibly starting with unsterile wort before the honey is even pitched.

Another detail, as you partly mentioned earlier, is osmotic pressure. Again, this is independent of gravity of the substance. The importance of osmosis for bacterial growth will be impeded regardless of the form of sugar or salt used. Basic scientific evidence that brines work just as well as staving off bacterial infections as dry cures do supports this.

Whether liquid or solid (brines, cures, rubs, pickling, etc.) sugar, salt, acids, and even fats have preservative properties to stave off bacteria. The gravity of these substances has nothing to do with their ability to effectively preserve. Further proof --> smoking is basically a gas from and it also has potent preservative properties! Look up gravlax, saurbraten, saurkraut, jerky, preserved lemons, pickles, salt cod... The list goes on. And foods that would have normally spoiled, without some amount of curing, will hold up just fine for quite some time without refrigeration... independent of the gravity of the sugar they relied on for the curing.

I mentioned earlier that the type of honey you use in brewing is important. Please don't assume that everyone's scenario is equivalent to your own, as a beekeeper (how convenient), who uses extremely raw homegrown honey with a bunch of particulate matter suspended inside the product.

 

[motorneuron]

I don't like this to get sidetracked, but Pilgarlic is right here. You don't need to resort to theorycraft; check out https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/cultivating-wild-yeast-local-honey-288543/ (people successfully using raw honey as a wild yeast source, and reporting vigorous spontaneous fermentation). Anyone who makes mead has to deal with this possibility.

The honey isn't "sterile" or "sanitary" when raw. It's just an environment in which nothing can grow. But there is stuff in there that is not dead. It's like ice: freeze something, and you don't sanitize it, you just stop any growth of whatever is inside. Honey is stable (won't go bad), but it is not sterile.

If you add raw honey to the secondary, you might be fine, just like you might be fine any time you cut corners on sanitation. But you might wind up with some wild activity. Unfortunately, though, you don't want to boil the honey either, because that will kill aromatics. So the best thing to do is to heat it to a low pasteurization temperature, but not boiling. Use enough water to dissolve the honey, and then maintain a 175F temperature for half an hour. Cool it, and then add that liquid to the secondary.

 

[JoppaFarms]

Seems like we have gotten off topic. I'm asking for methods of getting honey flavor (and perhaps sweetness) into the beer after primary fermentation, whether it be a secondary fermentation or at bottling.

You can use a program like Beer Calculus at http://hopville.com/ to gauge % of fermentables. You would not be "diluting" the honey with water... you would merely be thinning it out a tiny bit so it's easier to pour.

Thanks for the link to Beer Calculus, I'll have to poke around with it and see what I can come up with. Perhaps I didn't clearly explain what I was thinking in my last post. I don't want to "thin" the honey with TOO much water since I will be adding it to a 1 gallon jug. The more water I use to thin the honey, the less space available for wort, which would dilute the wort that I'm trying to ferment (some). So trying to figure out how much honey and how much water seem to be important.

My general idea is to use it in secondary fermentation because of the potential difficulty I can see in accurately measuring out the appropriate amount to add to each bottle. I imagine that is a huge pain...

Besides the "thin and add to secondary" and the "use it at bottling", are there any other methods that people have used with success?

 

[bobbrews]

2/3 cup water will be sufficient enough to thin out 2 lbs of honey.

For optimum flavor, you would add honey at both stages (secondary and bottling). Wouldn't that make the most sense at this point?

There are calculators that pinpoint how much honey, or other liquid sugar, you would need to add to effectively prime a beer. So it isn't a pain if you use Google --> http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

 

[Pilgarlic]

Before simply adding honey to your primary or secondary, you may want to read the following:

http://www.honey.com/images/uploads/general/home_brew.pdf

Then again, of course, you may not.

 

[bobbrews]

You don't need to resort to theorycraft.

You kind of do considering there are thousands upon thousands of people who have no instances of infection when adding water and honey to make mead or beer. Most honey is anti-bacterial... Fact.

The honey isn't "sterile" or "sanitary" when raw. It's just an environment in which nothing can grow. But there is stuff in there that is not dead. It's like ice: freeze something, and you don't sanitize it, you just stop any growth of whatever is inside.

Honey is one of the most sanitary foodstuffs on the planet... equivalent to, or perhaps more than hops. And hops don't infect beer. The difference lies within what "type" of honey you are using. Some can harbor "whatever is inside" to leach out into your beer and promote infection. But with other cleaner types, this is a non-issue.

If you add raw honey to the secondary, you might be fine, just like you might be fine any time you cut corners on sanitation.

Not the same comparison. You are dealing with alcohol here. It's not like you're crapping in your beer. You're adding a very sanitary product to alcohol, which is already a poor environment for bacterial growth... especially with billions of populations of yeast which will crush any insignificant bacterial influence or new wild yeast presence.

maintain a 175F temperature for half an hour. Cool it, and then add that liquid to the secondary.

175 F is 5 degrees shy of a strong simmer. Simmering drives of volatile aromatics just like boiling does. Your theory would work if the hold temp. was about 140-150 F and you were dealing with an extremely raw honey full of particulates, which were later strained after pasteurization. I believe Ray Daniels recommends this.

Before simply adding honey to your primary or secondary, you may want to read the following

For the umpteenth time....the OP is adding honey to beer, not wort. And he may be using honey which is safe to thin out slightly in the tinest amount of warm sanitized water, and then pitch. You would probably be right if he pitched your raw beekeeper honey at high krausen. But that is not the case here.

 

[Pilgarlic]

I suggested that the OP might like to source something other than anecdotal experience. I do hope that he reads it. He seems to be looking for information.

 

[bobbrews]

I suggested that the OP might like to source something other than anecdotal experience. I do hope that he reads it. He seems to be looking for information.

If it doesn't apply, then it isn't useful.

You're still going under the assumption that he is adding extremely raw honey to room temperature Wort. He is adding it to BEER. And the honey he decides upon, orange blossom or golden blossom, like most homebrewers do, is an anti-bacterial, sanitary honey that is safe to pitch into Alcohol with almost zero risk of infection.

You'll be fine OP. If not, I'll pay for the cost of your 1 gallon beer that spoiled if you can prove it was due to the honey.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Bobbrews: I don't want to debate this with you. I suggested to the o.p. that he might find some information useful. I know that you don't think it's useful.

O.P.: read the information from the honey board. Take from it what you can. It's good information.

http://www.honey.com/images/uploads/general/home_brew.pdf

 

[JoppaFarms]

Ugh, you guys are giving me a headache. Thanks for external references. While they may or may not apply here (I haven't had the chance to see) there will undoubtedly be some learning points to gather. I have a few more days until I rack to secondary. I will sanitize/sterilize some water to thin the honey and add it to my secondary then rack on top. I may also add some at bottle time to carbonate, if I can figure out how to measure 31 grams or 1 oz or whatever it is supposed to be.

 

[Pratzie]

Seems like we have gotten off topic.

See my first post homie!! :fro::rockin:

Anyway, I've checked around and found this for u...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/honey-instead-corn-sugar-primer-15413/

I also found on another homebrew forum that will remain nameless that someone famous with their own beer podcast (remaining nameless here too) uses 1ml of honey for every 750ml bomber bottle of beer he is carbing.

Revvy also goes into the use of flavoring sugars with bottle carbing to add some subtle flavors. Check it out here, I subscribed cuz it was very informative anyway.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/

Just one last thing I wanna point out. Honey ferments differently from other sugars. In the primary it normally ferments all the way out leaving little to no flavoring (ive done batches like this). There would still be enough yeast in the secondary so I think you would lose some flavor there too due to additional fermentation (but this statement is just my assumption since my only hands on experience with adding fermentable sugar in a secondary involves back sweetening cider, not beer). So im still recommending adding it at bottling, but im sorry I can't really give u an amount that would be needed to add to prime/carb effectively since I haven't read a lot about it and have never tried it. Although I think I may with a future batch of kolsch.

Hope it helps!

 

[prohl84]

I like to add honey during krausen because it is really nutrient deficient (about 80% sugar). Typically I dissolve lb./ qt. at 150F for 10min. with 1/4tsp. nutrient booster. I assume that adding a significant quantity of honey during secondary may result in a stuck ferment. Beer is at/ near FG then suddenly there is an abundance of sugar the yeast are still active but not reproducing; they don't have the nutrient resources to digest that much sugar.... I think if anything you will have fewer off flavors if you add in primary.

Carbing with honey will impart honey flavors; I like to use local wildflower honey. Lighter honey generally will impart fewer flavors than darker varieties. I find it also carbs faster than corn or dme.

I love honey!

 

[JoppaFarms]

Interesting theory Prohl. Its my understanding that honey, being primarily fructose and glucose, is easier to digest for yeast than maltose is. Assuming I add it late (as in secondary) the remaining yeast that haven't gone dormant would be able to take care of the added sugars fairly easily, right? Reproduction may be limited, like you say, because of lack of nutrients, but couldn't this be a good thing late in the process? Perhaps not all the sugars would be fermented (is this what you mean by stuck fermentation)? Assuming I wait until at or very near FG to move to secondary, then this "stuck" fermentation may be exactly what I'm looking for.

I'm wondering if I shorten the secondary fermentation (cold crash after only a few days, instead of giving the yeast time to ferment ALL the honey) may stop the fermentation of those honey sugars, leaving a little sweetness and honey flavor.

 

[Pratzie]

I'm wondering if I shorten the secondary fermentation (cold crash after only a few days, instead of giving the yeast time to ferment ALL the honey) may stop the fermentation of those honey sugars, leaving a little sweetness and honey flavor.

How are u gonna carb it? Bottles? Cuz then they would have to warm up to eat the sugar. If ur gonna keg u, u may as well drop a campden tab in and then add the honey and force carb it.

 

[JoppaFarms]

I'll be bottling. I don't have kegging equipment (yet). I meant cold crash the secondary fermentation after a few days, bottle cold, and let it self rise to room temperature to carb.

 

[prohl84]

Stuck or stopped fermentation can happen for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is a lack of nutrients; or an imbalance of sugar to nutrients. The yeast cannot acclimate to the rapidly changing chemistry of the wort or the population does not grow large enough before anaerobic respiration kicks in. Another thing that occurs during ferment is that the pH drops significantly (especially with honey) and I am not sure of the exact number but I think yeast becomes stressed around a pH < 3.
If your ferment is stuck and there is a lot of remaining sugar you run the risk of bottle grenades if the yeast wakes up hungry.