Melanoidin Malt in Decoction

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The Gulper
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Tomorrow I'm going to brew a Dunkelbockbier ("Traditional Bock" in official styling terms) which requires a 4% dose of Melanoidin Malt, a true and proven recipe I have brewed twice before with a tremendous success, using multi step infusions.

This time however I'm planning to go the Hochkurz Decoction way. It's just more convenient to me (yes, it is) as the grist is huge and my mash tun is small.

In my experience, when used in stepped infusions, Melanoidin Malt emulates the decoction flavour effect in a somewhat exagerrated way. So now I think, how will it behave if I use it in a real decoction, wouldn't it be excessive?

Have you heard of any recipes combining both Melanoidin Malt and Decoction?
Or is its use limited only to infusion-mashing for emulating the decoction flavour?
 

hottpeper13

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I have a honey Kolsch that uses 4 oz of honey malt in a 1.044 batch,it is an awesome beer and is my house ale. Once I did a 2 decoction mash, mashed in at 143,pulled most of the grain,raised to 158 rest 10 min,bring to boil in less then 10 min and boil for 20 min. Add back to get 158-160 and rest 30 min ,pull most of the grain and boil 20 min then add back to get 172 mashout.
I almost had to dump it , it was cloyingly sweet even thou it finished at 1.010. I would not recommend doing both.
 

cactusgarrett

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when used in stepped infusions, Melanoidin Malt emulates the decoction flavour
This is not just isolated to step mashing. People typically use melanoidin in lieu of decoction, regardless of their mash schedules.

To your main question: I've never done it, but I don't know you'd notice a difference if it wasn't side-by-side comparison. This is, though, for "reasonable" levels of melanoidin malt (<5%?). Personally I never go above 3% as I find melanoidin malt to impart too intense of a flavor.
 
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Well, I 've just finished my Dunkelbockbier brewing session. Employed 4% Melanoidin and single decoction.
I wouldn't say I noticed much increase in melano flavour comparing to my previous infusion mashes of the same grist.
I expect the difference in the ready beer would be rather insignificant.
 

MaxStout

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Since melanoidin malt is added to infusion mashes to approximate the flavor characteristics of a docoction beer, why would you need to add it at all if you are doing a decoction?
 
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With all my lagers and altbiers, I do a one step decoction, from 145 ->155. I started doing it because I wanted to do a step mash from 145 to 155 and didn't have enough room in my mashtun to add more boiling water. I also add anywhere from 3% (alts) to 5% (bocks) of melanoidin malt. My decoctions are not long drawn-out affairs. I raise the decoction from 145 to 155 and let it sit for 20 minutes, before boiling it for 10 minutes and adding back to the main mash for 20 minutes. I feel the little bit of melanoidin helps in the 'maltiness' of my brews.
 
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Since melanoidin malt is added to infusion mashes to approximate the flavor characteristics of a docoction beer, why would you need to add it at all if you are doing a decoction?
Above 2%, it gives a distinct vinous flavour, which I like a lot in my stronger lagers and can't attain otherwise, even with the most intensive decoction regimen. So, I used the Melanoidin malt as I always do and shortened the decoction time to not affect its flavour too much.

So, to answer my original question, combining Melanoidin Malt and Decoction seems pretty much possible, when doing short decoction for mashing convenience rather than for flavour.
 
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