Mashing raw wheat, ugh.

[Stand]

My first attempt was with a 122 degree protein rest for 20 minutes. After that I turned on my RIMS tube and set it to raise to 152. (45% raw wheat)

I thought something caught on fire the smell was so bad. Pulled out my heating element, and it was coated in burnt starch. Mash was ruined. Took 30 minutes of scrubbing to clean the element.

Second time was better, but I had to use boiling water to raise temp, and I didn't have as much wheat (because I ran out).

Still had issues with efficiency and lautering required me to stir the grain bed.

The beer turned out fine (although numbers were way off).

About to do another Witbier, so I have questions. With raw wheat is there a better process to help with efficiency and avoiding a stuck sparge? Should I mash everything together, or raw wheat separate? Some people say boil the raw wheat mash?

Anybody have ideas?

 

[RM-MN]

BIAB works well with wheat but the step mash is more difficult. You'd have to dough in to hit the 122 degrees, then add boiling water (calculated amount) to get to mash temp. With the bag you don't get the stuck sparge because of the huge filter area but you might have to squeeze it to get all the wort out. Raw wheat makes a sticky mash.

 

[IslandLizard]

I often brew Witbiers with 50-60% of flaked wheat and incorporate a 15' combined proteinase/beta-glucanase rest at 131F. Flaked wheat is pregelatinized, your raw (cracked) wheat isn't, it starts to gelatinize at 125F, so you may not get the best breakdown of the starch matrix during your protein rest (122F), so your mash will remain gummier.

You could preboil the cracked wheat (I preboil flaked corn and rice) or probably better, do a cereal mash with it before mashing the rest of the grist with it. Your cereal mash becomes the "strike liquid" for the rest of the mash when adding enough cold water to hit the right dough-in temp.

With your RIMS scorching remains a risk when stuff sticks to the hot element. Maybe reduce the heat output?

BTW, I batch sparge and also use rice hulls.

 

[balrog]

Additional data point here regarding BIAB
I did some flaked oat heavy attempts with BIAB full volume and the drain time was insane. I added 2oz rice hulls and all was back to normal the next time.

Rice Hulls: The Mash Laxative That Works.

 

[Stand]

I often brew Witbiers with 50-60% of flaked wheat and incorporate a 15' combined proteinase/beta-glucanase rest at 131F. Flaked wheat is pregelatinized, your raw (cracked) wheat isn't, it starts to gelatinize at 125F, so you may not get the best breakdown of the starch matrix during your protein rest (122F), so your mash will remain gummier.

You could preboil the cracked wheat (I preboil flaked corn and rice) or probably better, do a cereal mash with it before mashing the rest of the grist with it. Your cereal mash becomes the "strike liquid" for the rest of the mash when adding enough cold water to hit the right dough-in temp.

With your RIMS scorching remains a risk when stuff sticks to the hot element. Maybe reduce the heat output?

BTW, I batch sparge and also use rice hulls.

I can forgo the RIMS tube (That's what I did on the second attempt). What's your process look like for a cereal mash?

How to brew lists 98-113 as beta-glucan activity range. About half the recipes I am reading say do a rest at 113, might that be better than 122? I'm looking at a BYO Witbier recipe with this schedule: 5m@113, 35m@144, 20m@154

I see Wheat gelatinization range is 136-147, but I see other people bringing their cereal mashes way higher.

I'm sure I can change heat output, I just need to get into the settings, but at this point I'm freaked out to even try if I can avoid it.

 

[Stand]

Alright, so I think I'm going to try milling the raw wheat really finely and mashing 20m@113, 20m@144, 20m@154. If it doesn't work I'll get a stuck sparge and lower efficiency, but I can deal with that. If I can avoid doing a cereal mash I'd like to, but if this doesn't work I'll do that next time.

37.8% raw wheat in my grist. I'll report back what happens.

 

[IslandLizard]

Sounds like a plan! ^

Is your beta-amylase rest at 144F to increase fermentability? Maybe make that 30'?
Skipping the protein rest at 121? I think that's OK.
Any rice hulls on hand?

 

[Stand]

I was thinking 144 would give me gelatinization as well as some conversion. Beersmith says wheat gelatinizes at 136-147 F (58-64 C), so I was thinking the higher end of that range would work well.

Those temps also help me structure my mash because I can Mash in with 3 gallons, add 2 gallons of boiling water to hit second temp and 1 gallon to reach the third.

I swear I'd just do a cereal mash if there was an elegant way to do it, but it's such a nightmare to calculate and record that I would be afraid it worked perfectly and I won't be able to do it again. Also, if I can avoid boiling 5 gallons of starch goo on my stove, I'd like to do that.

No rice hulls on hand, but SWMBO would probably murder me if I tried to run to the LHBS to get them. Honestly I've got so much time on my hands right now that it feels like a good time to be experimental.

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I swear I'd just do a cereal mash if there was an elegant way to do it, but it's such a nightmare to calculate and record that I would be afraid it worked perfectly and I won't be able to do it again. Also, if I can avoid boiling 5 gallons of starch goo on my stove, I'd like to do that.

Cereal mashes are really easy, there's nothing to calculate. If it gets too thick, add more water, and keep stirring.

I had crap efficiency from using 40-50% flaked corn in a Tank 7 Saison clone until I started pre-boiling it for 30-60 minutes before the mash. When adding some cold water that gooey liquid becomes my strike water when it goes into the mash tun.

Milling more finely will help with quicker break down and conversion, keep that in mind.

Have you read Palmer's instructions on cereal mashing? Pgs. 173-175 in the 3rd Ed.
Barley, wheat, oats, and rye can be fully converted at 150-155F. A preceding beta glucan/protein rest at 113F is recommended.
Corn and rice can be fully converted at 165-172F.

 

[Stand]

My problem is the calculation at the end is still squishy, and I hate stuff like that. The HBT guide is the first one I have found that normalizes temps at the end which is easier, but here is what I want to do: I want to calculate the temperature necessary to hit my single infusion mash temp with the cereal mash at boiling temp. Why you ask? Because I'm an idiot, I guess.

I might try to use this: https://community.mrbeer.com/topic/10969-cereal-mash-calculation/

Dear god, I tried to do math.

The number I come up with is to adjust strike-water to hit 114.5 for main mash and then add my cereal mash @212 to hit my target temperature. I threw together a spreadsheet with my math.

 

[Stand]

Finally got around to brewing this today. Used the triple infusion 20m@113, 20m@144, 40m@154 with 1/2 lb rice hulls.

Lautered better than most of my all malt mashes, so I will do this from now on.

 

[Stand]

Turned out tasty, but body is too thin, but still carbing.

I think my mashing at 113 worked too well. If I do this again, any idea how I should adjust mash to get more body?