Mashing at higher temps or mash out?

[luizffgarcia]

Guys, i am experimenting with my mash temps, i would like to know your impressions on how to get body out of the mash.

What is the actual difference between mashing for 60 minutes at around 155 without a mash out, over mashing at 149 for 60 minutes and then mashing out for 10 minutes at 170?

Thanks

 

[Morrey]

I am a BIAB, full volume, single infusion brewer who lauters the grains after mash and doesn't bring the temps up to 170F before removing the grain bag. Since I can grind my grist very fine for BIAB, a large percentage of my conversion is done quickly. I find it most important to address your question with the initial strike temp, so if I wanted good body with a hint of residual sweetness, I do 155F mashes to get there. Of course you need a yeast that attenuates to the level that helps this all work together, but that's another subject. If I targeted 149F with my brewing method, I'd expect a thinner and drier end product.

I see no point in the 170F rise (in my brewing system) since I am beginning my boil immediately after removing my grain bag. But, this is how I do it in a system that works for me. You may do things differently so YMMV.

 

[Auger]

The mash-out step won't have a large effect on the fermentability of your wort.

Mashing at 155 favors alpha-amylase, which results in more long-chain polysaccharides, which will make the wort slightly less fermentable and end up with a bigger-bodied, more malty beer.

Mashing at a lower temp (e.g. your example of 149) favors the beta-amylase which creates more short-chain polysaccharides. This produces a more fermentable wort and results in a drier beer.

The mash-out step serves a few purposes - raising the temperature of your mash to 170 after conversion is complete denatures the enzymes, ensuring that once your mash has reached whatever point you've deemed appropriate, conversion stops there vs. continuing at some level during the sparge. The increase in heat also helps to thin the mash by both diluting the water:grist ratio, and making the dissolved sugars more fluid. I generally only bother with a mash-out step if I'm doing a thicker or higher gravity mash, or in a mash with a lot of adjuncts, to help prevent a stuck sparge.

ETA: with regard to my first sentence - mash out could, in theory, have an effect on fermentability if, for example, you mashed at 152ish, didn't do a mash out, and for some reason the mash temp dropped to 148, it may result in a drier beer than you intended. If you performed a mash-out in that case, the enzymes would denature and even if the temp dropped, no further conversion would take place.

 

[luizffgarcia]

I am a BIAB, full volume, single infusion brewer who lauters the grains after mash and doesn't bring the temps up to 170F before removing the grain bag. Since I can grind my grist very fine for BIAB, a large percentage of my conversion is done quickly. I find it most important to address your question with the initial strike temp, so if I wanted good body with a hint of residual sweetness, I do 155F mashes to get there. Of course you need a yeast that attenuates to the level that helps this all work together, but that's another subject. If I targeted 149F with my brewing method, I'd expect a thinner and drier end product.

I see no point in the 170F rise since I am beginning my boil immediately after removing my grain bag.

I am also doing BIAB, full volume single infusion. I just brewed 2 batches at 155F which i will keg in a week, and i hope it will solve the problem of my beer being a little thin, before that i was just mashing at 149F and that was it.

 

[Morrey]

I am also doing BIAB, full volume single infusion. I just brewed 2 batches at 155F which i will keg in a week, and i hope it will solve the problem of my beer being a little thin, before that i was just mashing at 149F and that was it.

I think you may notice a difference in beers comparing the two mash temps. My wife noted a beer was a bit thin and lacked body, so I made the exact recipe and bumped the mash temps from 148F to 155F. Her comment was..."This is more like it".

 

[Morrey]

ETA: with regard to my first sentence - mash out could, in theory, have an effect on fermentability if, for example, you mashed at 152ish, didn't do a mash out, and for some reason the mash temp dropped to 148, it may result in a drier beer than you intended. If you performed a mash-out in that case, the enzymes would denature and even if the temp dropped, no further conversion would take place.

Good point, Matt. In the case of a temp drop below the expected hold point during the mash, it surely wouldn't hurt a thing to mash out at 170F. I'll try that if my temps drop unexpectedly.

 

[TomVA]

I like dark beers with a full mouth feel and low alcohol, so I mash between 158 and 160°F and ferment with S-04. My latest cream stout, which contained rolled oats and lactose, was mashed at 160°F and, came in at 3.6% ABV. It's only three weeks in bottle and is already the best stout I've ever had.

TomVA

 

[Morrey]

Good job, Tom. I think the keys to your success was mash temp along with the ingredients you used which provided that awesome mouth feel you achieved. Even if your beer finished at 1.022 FG, so what....it a darn fine beer. Some folks misunderstand stouts to think they are high ABV which is often not the case.

 

[NSMikeD]

I think you may notice a difference in beers comparing the two mash temps. My wife noted a beer was a bit thin and lacked body, so I made the exact recipe and bumped the mash temps from 148F to 155F. Her comment was..."This is more like it".

Gotta love when the science of mashing results in somethings so simple as "that is more like it"

 

[Morrey]

Gotta love when the science of mashing results in somethings so simple as "that is more like it"

LOL, I know precisely what you mean!

 

[TomVA]

Good job, Tom. I think the keys to your success was mash temp along with the ingredients you used which provided that awesome mouth feel you achieved. Even if your beer finished at 1.022 FG, so what....it a darn fine beer. Some folks misunderstand stouts to think they are high ABV which is often not the case.

Close! OG of 1.050 and FG of 1.023. IMO, stouts should be big on flavor, not alcohol.

TomVA