Mash PH way to low...

[Paleface]

Hi all. Relatively new to all grain brewing, I am brewing on a new BIAB system lately and the first attempts with std. APA's all came out with a tart, astringant bitterness. So much so 2 out of 3 batches were un-drinkable. Water test shows my well water tested PH at 8.6.

Thinking that may be the issue, I brewed a brown Ale yesterday, used 2% acid malt along with the recipe. Then last minute I over-reacted (couldn't help myself) and threw in a tbsp. of 5/2 PH stabalizer just for good measure. PH tested by way of the in-accurate strip method indicates I was well below 5, more like the 4.6 zone. What have I done here??

Anybody know what I can expect of this batch? Do I have another dumper??

My well water analysis is not complete.
Total solids 167 ppm
Hardness - 157 ppm Calcium & Magnesium
PH-8.6
That's all I know.

The recipe was an american brown ale
1.64 OG (in the fermenter now
32 IBU's
22 SRM
Maris-Otter base, then Amber, Crystal 60, some chocolate 450 for color, Victory and acid malt.

Any thoughts comments much appreciated.

 

[JonM]

Well, next batch try using 100% reverse osmosis distilled water (grocery stores usually have a machine where you can get it for something like 30 cents a gallon) and build a water profile using the Brewer's Friend calculator or Bru'n water. or simply use the instructions at the bottom of the first post in this thread, which is really helpful. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460. If the next batch is better, you'll know you're on to something.

And you'd do well to throw the 5.2 stabilizer in the trash. It's useless and doesn't work.

ETA: With crystal malt, amber malt, and 450 L chocolate, that alone might have been enough to get the pH in the right range. (might have.) If so, the acid malt would have pushed the pH even lower.

 

[Yooper]

I doubt the pH dropped even to 5.3, so it was not likely to be under 5. The strips are not accurate, so I'd assume that they did NOT give you the proper pH reading.

But without knowing your alkalinity in the water, we can't really tell you that.

You can get a water analysis for about $25, and then you'd know. Otherwise, we'd all be just guessing.

 

[The_Bishop]

Also: Throw that 5.2 mash stabilizer in the garbage. It doesn't work.

 

[ajdelange]

Hi all. Relatively new to all grain brewing, I am brewing on a new BIAB system lately and the first attempts with std. APA's all came out with a tart, astringant bitterness.

The first thing you need to do is get a complete water analysis. Until then brew with RO. Astringent bitterness suggests (but does not prove) high sulfate level. You need to know whether you have this or not.

Water test shows my well water tested PH at 8.6.

pH is actually not that significant an indicator of how the water will effect the pH of the beer. What you do need to know is the alkalinity. In truth, you need to know the alkalinity and the pH but if you could only choose one of those you'd want it to be the alkalinity.

Thinking that may be the issue, I brewed a brown Ale yesterday, used 2% acid malt along with the recipe. Then last minute I over-reacted (couldn't help myself) and threw in a tbsp. of 5/2 PH stabalizer just for good measure. PH tested by way of the in-accurate strip method indicates I was well below 5, more like the 4.6 zone. What have I done here??

Got yourself worried about things you probably don't need to worry about. You also wasted the cost of the stabilizer which, as others have noted, doesn't do what it is supposed to for various reasons, and perhaps used insufficient sauermalz.

My well water analysis is not complete.
Total solids 167 ppm
Hardness - 157 ppm Calcium & Magnesium
PH-8.6

From this alone we can tell that your alkalinity is probably appreciable - over a hundred and as high as 157. That's a lot to ask 3% sauermalz to handle. As has been noted by others the pH strips are notoriously inaccurate so you actual pH was doubtless over 5. A pH meter is, obviously, the only way to be sure but with a water report in hand some of the calculators and spreadsheets out there will at least give a rough estimate of where mash pH is likely to land.

Anybody know what I can expect of this batch? Do I have another dumper??

Lt it ferment out and see.


The recipe was an american brown ale
1.64 OG (in the fermenter now
32 IBU's
22 SRM
Maris-Otter base, then Amber, Crystal 60, some chocolate 450 for color, Victory and acid malt.

Any thoughts comments much appreciated.[/QUOTE]

 

[Paleface]

Thanks everyone for these helpful insights. I can see there is really not enought info. to sort this out. I'll get a full water analysis and brew with RO in the meantime. Keeping my fingers crossed on the brown ale.

Any hints on a reliable PH meter that adjusts for temp?

Again, thanks so much for the helpful comments!

 

[ajdelange]

I think at this point the Hach Pro pH+ is probably used by more people here than the other choices. I also know a couple of professional brewers who use them. It is a good meter for the money.

 

[Paleface]

Just wanted to report back on this old string. The brown Ale II was so worried about fermented nicely and tastes good. Little if any of the astringent bitterness I had in previous brews. Guessing the Aciduated and dark malts in the recipe brought the mash PH down to a reasonable level. It also converted much quicker with higher efficiency. I let it mash for 60, but it was really done at 40.

I also got a ward Labs beer test done. Seems like high PH and Alkalinity is something I will need to deal with going forward. I brew mostly IPA's PA's, dark ales and the occasional Belgian tripple.
Anyone see any other red flags in this report that I need to be concerned with? Thanks for any feedback and comments.

pH 7.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 186
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.31
Cations / Anions, me/L 3.6 / 3.9
ppm
Sodium, Na 16
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 39
Magnesium, Mg 11
Total Hardness, CaCO3 143
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 6
Chloride, Cl 3
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 208
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 172
Total Phosphorus, P < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

 

[mabrungard]

That is not terrible brewing water, but the alkalinity is pretty high. That alkalinity level is bordering on creating flavor issues when using acid malt or lactic acid. May need to employ phosphoric to reduce taste effects.