Mash pH and Time

[ferventbrewer]

When attempting to hit the optimal 5.2-5.3 pH range in your mash, when is it important to hit that number? Does your mash need to be at pH 5.2 for 60 minutes, 45 minutes or does it just need to end up at 5.2 after 60 minutes?

I'm surprised I can't remember reading this anywhere.

I check my mash pH about 10-15 minutes in and depending on the malts it might be around 5.4 - 5.6. After adding my salts I've noticed I have to wait another 15 minutes or so for any adjustment to take place and when it does it's usually only by a tenth or two. However by the end of my mash I'm usually at 5.2.

I have high bicarbonate and RA water and if I'm making a Porter I've noticed that my mash will hit 5.2 without any additions and it will do it much more quickly than when I use RO water for my light colored beers and adjust the mash with salts (I use phosphoric acid to adjust my sparge water only).

 

[Gavin C]

That is not an optimal pH range.

Typically 5.3 to 5.5 depending on grist and personal tatses would be closer to the mark. That's not to say that 5.2 is a bad idea, just not ideal for all beer styles.

Porter/stout may benefit from higher pH of 5.4-5.5

 

[noggins]

My understanding is you want to get it to where it will hit near 5.5 10-20 minutes after the grains go in. So you wanna shoot for around 6-7 before adding grains depending on your grain bill, to make the majority of the mash time right around 5-6.

 

[Gavin C]

So you wanna shoot for around 6-7 before adding grains depending on your grain bill, to make the majority of the mash time right around 5-6.

No this is not typically what is done. The ph of the water before hand plays a minimal role in th mash pH.

 

[ferventbrewer]

That is not an optimal pH range.
Porter/stout may benefit from higher pH of 5.4-5.5

Is that because of more tannins at a higher pH giving a porter/stout more mouth feel?

 

[BlueHouseBrew]

Ideally, you want your mash pH to be stable as soon as possible. (Conversion can be substantially complete at the 15 minute mark.) To do this, the salt / acid additions need to be made to the strike water, so that once you are mashed-in, you are done. Water calculators help with this and (assuming you know your water profile) will get things very close. From there, accurate notes help for adjustments to future brews. My ability to hit a desired mash pH increased substantially when I stopped trying to adjust pH mid-mash and, instead, started calculating what the pH would be, mashing based on the calculation, recording the pH (whatever it may have been), and then making adjustments for the next brew (rather than during the mash).

 

[Gavin C]

Is that because of more tannins at a higher pH giving a porter/stout more mouth feel?

I'm not sure why to be honest. This is an area where I still have much to learn. But I believe you are correct in the mouthfeel aspect of things rather than the tannin part of the explanation.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Not sure you were planning it but definitely don't try to make adjustments on the fly intra-mash. Bad idea for lots of reasons.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I spoke with Colin Kaminski just last week about how difficult it is for the mash to reach an equilibrium. My take away from our conversation was that the mash may never be at the same pH from start to finish.

With that said I've found that taking pH readings, with a well calibrated pH meter while the brewing water is still at room temperature, is producing some very good beer for me. I use a meter that has ATC built in but I have read where ATC may not always give the most reliable readings when measuring hot wort.

 

[Gavin C]

I spoke with Colin Kaminski just last week about how difficult it is for the mash to reach an equilibrium. My take away from our conversation was that the mash may never be at the same pH from start to finish.

With that said I've found that taking pH readings, with a well calibrated pH meter while the brewing water is still at room temperature, is producing some very good beer for me. I use a meter that has ATC built in but I have read where ATC may not always give the most reliable readings when measuring hot wort.

The ATC on pH meters is on every modern pH meter good and bad. It simply means the pH is calculated based on two measured variables.

1. The ionic gradient accross the bulb
2: Temperature of the sample

You can't measure pH without these data so all modern devices that use a CPU have an ATC. The sales pitch is always. "Has an ATC". That's all it is.

Lots of folks confuse this ATC with the type of temperature corrections we often make for hydrometer readings ourselves. The ATC is not this type of inbuilt corrective tool. All it means it that pH can be expressed as a pH value and not some obscure number requiring a calculation by the brewer.

Maybe I'm interpreting you wrong and this is not what you meant.

The pH will change with temperature but this is not what an ATC corrects for.

Measuring overly warm samples will also degrade the longevity of the meter's probe.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

The ATC on pH meters is on every modern pH meter good and bad. It simply means the pH is calculated based on two measured variables.

1. The ionic gradient accross the bulb
2: Temperature of the sample

You can't measure pH without these data so all modern devices that use a CPU have an ATC. The sales pitch is always. "Has an ATC". That's all it is.

Lots of folks confuse this ATC with the type of temperature corrections we often make for hydrometer readings ourselves. The ATC is not this type of inbuilt corrective tool. All it means it that pH can be expressed as a pH value and not some obscure number requiring a calculation by the brewer.

Maybe I'm interpreting you wrong and this is not what you meant.

The pH will change with temperature but this is not what an ATC corrects for.

Measuring overly warm samples will also degrade the longevity of the meter's probe.

Yes I agree that is why I never take pH readings of hot liquids, the readings are not accurate and it degrades the probe. Thank you for clarifying.