mash and fermentation schedules for helles?

[nathan]

What are your thoughts/preferences?

What about a single infusion to 152F, then a 1/3rd decoction boil for the last 15-20 minutes as a mashout? If I do it this way, should I calculate a volume for a mashout temperature when it's returned or just return it boiling and go with what I get, then sparge as usual (I'm still batching for the mean time, at 168).

For fermentation, I plan on at least 3 weeks at 50-53F. A diacetyl rest at 55-60 for a day or two, then about 5-6 weeks at 34F in a cornie keg, force carb and serve.

95% or so pilsner malt, 90 min boil, maybe some Munich malt?

Hops will depend on what I can find. Hopefully some tett or hallertau.

 

[nathan]

Is a diacetyl rest done after primary and before lagering, or is it just a period in the primary, so you might have primary temp T, spike up for diacetyl rest, then back to temp T, then to lagering?

 

[Beerrific]

What are your thoughts/preferences?

What about a single infusion to 152F, then a 1/3rd decoction boil for the last 15-20 minutes as a mashout? If I do it this way, should I calculate a volume for a mashout temperature when it's returned or just return it boiling and go with what I get, then sparge as usual (I'm still batching for the mean time, at 168).

For fermentation, I plan on at least 3 weeks at 50-53F. A diacetyl rest at 55-60 for a day or two, then about 5-6 weeks at 34F in a cornie keg, force carb and serve.

95% or so pilsner malt, 90 min boil, maybe some Munich malt?

Hops will depend on what I can find. Hopefully some tett or hallertau.

I mashed my helles at 150F. The difference between 150 and 152 really depends on your set-up and yeast health. If you can mash at 152 and get the FG down where it needs to be (should be pretty dry) then go for that. But, on drier beers tend to mash lower, I would rather it over attenuate than under.

My grain bill was 95% pilsner, 4% Munich, and 1% melanoidin. Skip the melanoidin if you go for the decoction. I would pull the decoction, boil, return enough to get you to mash out temps and let the rest of the decoction cool while you are at mash out temps then add it back when you start to sparge.

Is a diacetyl rest done after primary and before lagering, or is it just a period in the primary, so you might have primary temp T, spike up for diacetyl rest, then back to temp T, then to lagering?

Diacetyl rest are done before primary is finished, before the yeast finish fermenting. Pitching cold may eliminate the need for a diacetyl rest. Here is a great resource:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Fermenting_Lagers

 

[menschmaschine]

I do a single decoction for my Helles and they come out nicely grainy/malty. I don't think you're going to get much melanoidin formation from doing the decoction at mash-out. I think it's better to do the decoction early on (thick). Most Pilsner malts these days don't really benefit from the low-temp protein rest. As a matter of fact, doing one at 120-ish can reduce head formation/retention on pilsner malts that are well modified. I've researched mash schedules for helles and how my pilsner malt analysis relates and have settled on the following schedule. Unless you are using an undermodified pilsner malt, this schedule won't do you wrong:

-Mash in at 131dF (This is a Protein/Saccharification Rest)
-Wait 5 minutes, pull thick decoction (decoction volume based on software calculation)
-Bring decoction to 156dF (vary this up or down for how much attenuation you want to get, keeping in mind how much dextrinous malt you have, like Cara-Pils) and hold for 10 minutes
-Bring decoction to boiling and hold for five minutes (stir constantly when raising temps!)
-Return decoction to mash, which will raise the whole mash temp to 156 or whatever you set your temp for (decoction volume depends on this temp as well, so it's good to use software like Beersmith for this) and hold for 20-30 minutes
-Direct heat mash to mash-out temps (or do another decoction if you like) and do mash-out as normal

One note on diacetyl rests, I almost always do them just to clean things up. They are to be done when the fermentation is about 6 points above terminal gravity. So, if you expect it to attenuate to 1.010, do a D-rest at 1.016. This usually occurs after the krausen has pretty much fallen, but not completely fallen.

 

[nathan]

Thanks for the help!
I cannot direct fire just yet on the mash/lauter, but hopefully soon.