Margarita Gose

[ShareBrewing]

Thanks for the advice! Since this is more of a traditional mixed fermentation sour, I got a couple more months til this will be ready to add the lime, tequila and such. Which means there's a lot of time to plan out how to perfect this brew. :mug

Guess I'll steer clear of the lime concentrate then. Seems like it'd just be easier to add the straight up juice and zest.

This is why I love this recipe... and margaritas! You can really try any approach to them. Go simple and easy or you can add virtually any fruit/flavor and it's still tasty. Not to sidetrack the topic, but this would be a great recipe to add fruit to, or in my instance honey. Could easily see this with jalapeños, strawberries, peaches, etc.

A brewery by me actually released a peach margarita sour. Heard it was pretty tasty!

 

[TravelingLight]

Kicked my keg last week after bottling the remaining gose in the keg. I finally got around to cleaning the keg last night and noticed something interesting. Some brown, goopy looking trub in the bottom. Not a problem, oxy-clean is destroying it as we speak. I was just curious, haven't seen a keg trub like this before. I'm wondering if it's the tincture settling out and discoloring the yeast trub? I snapped a pic...

 

[Morrey]

Never noted sediment like that (color) in my kegs of Margarita Gose. I have a new keg conditioning now, so I'll pay special attention to the trub when the keg kicks.

 

[ShareBrewing]

Could it be settled out wood tannins from the wood tincture?

 

[Weezy]

Subbed. Nice work guys.

 

[TravelingLight]

Could it be settled out wood tannins from the wood tincture?

That's kind of what I was thinking. That, coupled with yeast dropping out. I cold crash before kegging, but obviously we don't get all the yeasties out.

 

[Sillybilly]

Have you tried this using WY3711? Might be interesting to see how it is with lower FG, the dryness would create more perceived acidity.

 

[TravelingLight]

Have you tried this using WY3711? Might be interesting to see how it is with lower FG, the dryness would create more perceived acidity.

Damn. Had not thought about that. I've got 3711 in the yeast rack in the fridge. I think I need to try this!

However...I just thought about this...how does 3711 do in lower ph, i.e., acidic, environments? I know one of the reasons Morrey uses 05 is its tolerance for the lower ph. Anyone have experience using 3711 in more acidic environments?

 

[Sillybilly]

I have not personally used it in pre-acidified wort but AFAIK it is tolerant with lower pH.

 

[arnobg]

I think it would be interesting to ferment this with US-05 and then on day 3-5 of fermentation add 3711 to dry it out. I wouldn't use it for the entire fermentation. I've heard of people brewing IPA's this way and if you add the 3711 on day 3-4 you're not going to get Belgian character from the yeast but it will still dry it out.

 

[TravelingLight]

I'm subscribed to the 3711 thread over in the yeast/fermentation sub-forum. I presented the same questions in there. @sweetcell brought up some good points that there is research to suggest that saison strains are mutated wine strains. Further, as we know, wine ph is lower than typical ales. So I think this could work! I will be trying this next month for sure.

 

[Sillybilly]

Let us know how it turns out! Good point about the Belgian character, I am sure the 3711 thread has some ideas how to keep esters and phenols at bay but if it is too much than I would say US-05 first then finish with 3711. But I am curious how it would taste with much lower FG... only one way to find!

 

[Weezy]

Would a dry hop off something like moteuka complement this?

 

[Sillybilly]

Would a dry hop off something like moteuka complement this?

I had the same thought a few pages back, haven't tried it though..

 

[Morrey]

For what is worth regarding yeast strains and their tolerances to low ph levels, I have successfully used WLP001, WLP029 and now US-05 with predictable (successful) results. In this regard, at least the strains I listed have finished right on down to their attenuating limits while starting at 3.2 ph.

I was skeptical of pitching into this low ph environment for some time, but never have encountered a yeast problem. I think 3711 would be just fine in the 3.2 range. From there I would not know about the flavor profile it would offer, but those who don't try, don't learn.

If anyone uses 3711 for a test, please post results so we can all give it a try!

 

[isomerization]

Good question. L Plantarum is a lacto strain that is very easy to work with at typical household temps instead of the strains needing incubation over 100F. It is aggressive and very effective as a kettle souring agent.

I have been using Omega Lab's Lacto OYL-605 blend which contains L Plantarum. The upside is that it has never let me down, downside it is kinda spendy when my LHBS charges $11 a pop.

SO, I bought some L Plantarum caps from Swanson Vitamins but had not tried souring with them yet. You need to make a non-aerated lacto starter, and folks suggest 3-5 caps in a liter of wort starter for a 5G batch.

I had one pouch of OYL-605 left, but the date had expired a month ago. To be on the safe side, I added 3 caps of L Plantarum from Swanson for insurance. It worked well, so my next batch is going to be the caps only. I can't say enough good things about Omega. The only factor for me is cost control.

Brewing your recipe this week, thanks for sharing this!

Did you monitor pH of your starters with OYL-605? After 24 hour at room temp (~70F) my starter was down to pH 4.0 and had that noticeable lactic aroma. I'm going to give it until tomorrow (and check pH again) since I'm not brewing until then.

Also, have you ever tried to cold crash your lacto starters? I've seen mixed commentary with most suggesting against it. If I dump the whole starter its less than 5% of the total wort, so probably not an issue. Just wondering...

 

[Morrey]

Brewing your recipe this week, thanks for sharing this!

Did you monitor pH of your starters with OYL-605? After 24 hour at room temp (~70F) my starter was down to pH 4.0 and had that noticeable lactic aroma. I'm going to give it until tomorrow (and check pH again) since I'm not brewing until then.

Also, have you ever tried to cold crash your lacto starters? I've seen mixed commentary with most suggesting against it. If I dump the whole starter its less than 5% of the total wort, so probably not an issue. Just wondering...

Thanks for the feedback!

I actually have never monitored my starters for Ph but that is an interesting idea. Conversely I have looked for that milky/cloudy layer near the bottom, and the pleasantly sweet/soured aroma like an Arnold Palmer iced tea/lemonade.

I'd almost be hesitant to cold crash since I think you'd be throwing tons of live culture down the drain if you decant. I don't think this is "spent" starter as we think of in a traditional yeast starter. While it is certainly an idea, do the benefits outweigh the risks or losses? But please do post your thoughts and notes as we can all learn from trial and error.

I am ready to tap my next Margarita Gose as soon as a slot comes open! Love this stuff!!

 

[isomerization]

I agree with your thoughts on the starter Morrey, in the absence of centrifugation, I bet there are a ton of bacteria that haven't settled during the course of a routine cold crash.

My OYL-605 starter was down to pH 3.60 this morning (42 hr post pitch), I will be using it tonight, can't wait! I have saved some of the culture (stored at -80C with 20% glycerol) to see how well I can make new starters in the future. Would be nice to avoid the $10+ hit each time I want to kettle sour...

 

[Morrey]

I agree with your thoughts on the starter Morrey, in the absence of centrifugation, I bet there are a ton of bacteria that haven't settled during the course of a routine cold crash.

My OYL-605 starter was down to pH 3.60 this morning (42 hr post pitch), I will be using it tonight, can't wait! I have saved some of the culture (stored at -80C with 20% glycerol) to see how well I can make new starters in the future. Would be nice to avoid the $10+ hit each time I want to kettle sour...

Yeah, that $11 a pop for OYL-605 is a rub for sure. Flip side is that 605 has been so predictable and I've personally never had a failure with it.....knock on wood.

I usually take a gravity reading before I begin the kettle souring process, then another reading after I have hit my ph goals. Not that it has much of an impact either way, but I usually see "clean" lacto drop the gravity by a couple of points during souring. Typical numbers are 1.040 to start the sour and 1.038 after 48 hours of souring prior to my boil phase.

I started checking this due to an issue I had with another "dirty" lacto (not Omega) where I noted the gravity dropping during the sour phase. Darn this thing had dropped down to 1.020 (from 1.040) in two days and was fermenting out. Ooopps says the lab....we know we sold some lacto that had been contaminated with yeast. At that point I switched to Omega and never again has that happened.

Please keep us posted!

 

[isomerization]

Yeah, that $11 a pop for OYL-605 is a rub for sure. Flip side is that 605 has been so predictable and I've personally never had a failure with it.....knock on wood.

I usually take a gravity reading before I begin the kettle souring process, then another reading after I have hit my ph goals. Not that it has much of an impact either way, but I usually see "clean" lacto drop the gravity by a couple of points during souring. Typical numbers are 1.040 to start the sour and 1.038 after 48 hours of souring prior to my boil phase.

I started checking this due to an issue I had with another "dirty" lacto (not Omega) where I noted the gravity dropping during the sour phase. Darn this thing had dropped down to 1.020 (from 1.040) in two days and was fermenting out. Opps says the lab....we know we sold some lacto that had been contaminated with yeast. At that point I switched to Omega and never again has that happened.

Please keep us posted!

Good to know! I will post updates as they come. If this goes as smoothly as you make it sound, I have a whole host of kettle soured recipes I'd like to try. Just have to get the first one under the belt, haha.

 

[Sillybilly]

Anyone try saving a gallon of soured wort to inoculate subsequent batch?

FWIW, for my last kettle sour I made a 750mL starter with 5 Swanson caps, let it go for 4 or 5 days and pitched the whole thing. Took my pH down to 3.3-3.4* (wine strips) in 48 hours from the original pH (5.2-5.5*) as I had forgot to pre-acidify the wort to 4.5. Probably could have let it go another 24 hours to further drop it, but I decided to roll with it. As opposed to last time of just pitching directly into wort, I found this method to be more of a success.

* Currently accepting donations for a pH meter, PM for details

 

[TravelingLight]

Wanted to show y'all how crazy clear this thing got after a month or two in the keg. Sorry for the shiite lighting in the pic. But you get the point. I could read a damn newspaper through this glass.

 

[isomerization]

24 hours into the kettle sour and the pH is at 3.40, going to boil tomorrow, hoping for it to drop a bit more.

UPDATE: forgot to add the pic

 

[Morrey]

24 hours into the kettle sour and the pH is at 3.40, going to boil tomorrow, hoping for it to drop a bit more.

What temp are you keeping your kettle? Dropping to 3.40 in 24 hours is just perfect. Mine drops quite slowly during the second 24 hour period compared to the first 24 hours. I expect you'll be 3.30 or possibly lower by morning. What would you consider your ideal ph goal?

 

[isomerization]

What temp are you keeping your kettle? Dropping to 3.40 in 24 hours is just perfect. Mine drops quite slowly during the second 24 hour period compared to the first 24 hours. I expect you'll be 3.30 or possibly lower by morning. What would you consider your ideal ph goal?

I have a fermwrap around a Better Bottle, set at 80 F. The wort is pretty hazy at this point (will upload a pic tomorrow), I'm assuming from bacterial growth. There is much less lactic aroma though when compared to the starter.

From what I've read, the large majority of souring occurs in the first 24 hr with maybe 0.2-0.3 drop in the second 24 hr. I'd say I'm ideally looking for a pH of 3.2, so yeah hopefully right on target!

 

[Morrey]

Have you read the ph yet today (Friday) morning? I like 3.2 and that's pretty sour.

 

[isomerization]

Have you read the ph yet today (Friday) morning? I like 3.2 and that's pretty sour.

Just checked, at 3.20. Going to boil later tonight!

 

[Morrey]

Just checked, at 3.20. Going to boil later tonight!

Rock and Roll!!!!

 

[isomerization]

Rock and Roll!!!!

I'm using rehydrated S-05, what ferm temp would you recommend?

 

[Morrey]

Flexible to some degree. I usually set mine at 67F with a one degree swing.